Zeev and Elster #general


SY PEARLMAN <pearlman@...>
 

My grandfather said his father's name was Zeev. Is there any nickname,
synonym,variation of that name. Also, a JRI record says my great aunt's
first name was El/ster. What could be the variations of that name? Could
Rose or Rivka be derived >from that name? Could Gnesze become Feige? thanks,
Regards, Sy of New York(pearlman@cybernex.net)

Researching: PEARLMAN (Bialystok), ETKUS, ROSACHOTSKY, SANDEROVICH,
SEGALOVICH & SKOVRONEK (Lomza,Ciechanowiec,Wysokie Mazowieckie);
KUNOFSKY, LEVINE & KANTROWITZ (Uzda,Nesvizh in Belarus); BERNBACH
& HACKEL (Ulanow,Poland); MUNTZER (Glebowice,Poland); TREITELMAN
& KAMINER (Odessa & Kishinev); KRULL (Warsaw & Otvotsk)


Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@...>
 

Zeev or Zev can also be Velvel, Elster is probably Esther which usually
has no connection with Rosa or Rivkah in itself. It is however possible
that she had two names i.e. Esther Rivka - and so it might not necessarily
be a contradiction.

Abraham J. Heschel


Jacob D. Goldstein <jake@...>
 

At 10:52 PM 11/20/00 Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought wrote:
Zeev or Zev can also be Velvel,
Aside >from these, try Wolf. It's probably more common.

Elster is probably Esther which usually
has no connection with Rosa or Rivkah in itself.
Elster means "Oldest" in Yiddish. Could it be a misunderstanding?

Jake

Jacob D. Goldstein
jake@computer.org


Judith Romney Wegner
 

Zeev or Zev can also be Velvel,

Abraham J. Heschel
Dear Abraham,

You are absolutely correct. But that's exactly why I strongly disagree
with your previous message, in which you claimed that the etymology or
semantics of names is not relevant to this list. Here is a case in point,
in which -- right after denying the relevance -- you yourself proved just
how relevant it is! If one knows that Ze'ev means "Wolf" in Hebrew and
that the name Velvel is an affectionate diminutive for "Wolf" in German or
Yiddish, then one will automatically recognize that, as you just said,
"Ze'ev can also be Velvel."

That's precisely why I, for one, send etymological explanations to the
list -- so that people will be able to figure things like this out for
themselves in future! So, I simply cannot agree with your thesis that the
etymology and semantics of names is not relevant or important on Jewishgen.

Judith Romney Wegner


Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@...>
 

Dear Mrs. Wegner:

To clarify my earlier message - there is no doubt that ther are times that
a translation was used - Zev/Wolf/Velvel being an example, and thus your
posts are wonderful and important. However a "Shprintsa" was never ever
called "Esperantsa" and "Feivush" was never ever called "Phoebus". In these
cases and so many others etymology is not relevant. Perhaps a line should
be drawn between "etymological roots" and "nicknames and translations".
One of the things we at the Brandler Institute is working on is getting
copies of lists of names that was used by Rabbinical courts in Eastern
Europe - such lists would include every Jewish name and its relevant
"nickname" in use before the war. Since this is type of material is not
sold, we hope to work with the peresent day Rabbinical court system in
acquiring these lists. Perhaps sometime in the future we culd create a
database that could be place on the web.
At the risk of being repetitous - I do wish to point out once again that
the vast majority of names used in the Ninteenth and early twentieth
century remains in use to this very day in the Chasidic community, and such
it was not a question of etymology but rather a moments thought about all
the present day "Zev's" that are also called "Velvel" that prompted my
response.

Abraham J. Heschel

Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought
Brooklyn NY


Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Abraham Heschel says:
"To clarify my earlier message - there is no doubt that ther are times
that a translation was used - Zev/Wolf/Velvel being an example, and thus
your posts are wonderful and important. However a "Shprintsa" was never
ever called "Esperantsa" and "Feivush" was never ever called "Phoebus". In
these cases and so many others etymology is not relevant."

Well, my 2nd gr grandfather was Phoebus Hirsch. So don't jump to
conclusions-it was only >from your denial that I know he might have been
called Feivush also. It is relevent and your conclusions are not
necessarily true.
Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

"One of the things we at the Brandler Institute is working on is getting
copies of lists of names that was used by Rabbinical courts in Eastern
Europe - such lists would include every Jewish name and its relevant
"nickname" in use before the war. Since this is type of material is not
sold, we hope to work with the peresent day Rabbinical court system in
acquiring these lists. Perhaps sometime in the future we culd create a
database that could be place on the web."

The more I read of your e-mail the more upset I become. You at the
Brandler Institute assume that every Jew in the world should work off of
your list of what names were used by the Rabbinical courts in Eastern
Europe.

How about my German, Italian, French, Spanish, Dutch, English, Turkish, and
even Moroccan Jewish ancestors. How about Syrian, Iranian, Indian,
etc. Jews.

This is Jewishgen, not 'Eastern European Jewishgen' so don't expect for
the Jewish genealogical community to be ruled by what the Rabbinical
courts in Eastern Europe think Jewish names should have been.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY