Passenger Listing #general


Diane Jacobs <kingart@...>
 

Dear Eleanor,

I hate to throw a damper on this connection, but naturalization
records are notorious for having incorrect information. I was doing
a search for someone for April 7, 1903 and three ships they said
their family came on at that time. I finally gave up looking for the
ships and went to the soundex indexes. I finally found the person
and lo and behold the April 7 was rightbut the year was l904.

There is no guarantee if any or part of the information you have
on the naturalization papers are incorrect.

Sorry,
Diane Jacobs
New York

Thanks to an entry on Ancestry.com and the gentle prodding of a friend
from this list, I recently found the microfilmed Declaration of Intention
and Petition for Naturalization for my relative Ike London. Ike was
probably my grandmother's brother and was appointed guardian for my
father when the latter's parents died. I have some questions about the
naturalization paperwork that perhaps members of this list can suggest
answers for:
My next question has to do with Ike's name. On the Declaration he stated
that he emigrated >from Rotterdam on the ship Holland. On the Petition he
said that he arrived in NY on November 18, 1895 >from Rotterdam, Holland
and the ship's name was Rotterdam. After reading this, I enthusiastically
turned to microfilmed passenger lists, thinking it would be easy to find
Ike on the list. He must have arrived on the Holland-America line's
Rotterdam on Nov. 18, 1895.....

The closest ship's name I found was the Holland America ship Amsterdam,
which arrived in NY on November 20, 1895. Since I felt this was probably
the one Ike was on, I read the passenger list three times, but there was
no Ike London on it. There was, however, a young man named Israel
Lazowsky. Israel was 19 years old, not 22 or 23 as Ike would have been
according to the birthdates on his naturalization information, but the
age discrepancy is not overwhelming. I would like to know if list members
feel that Israel Lazowsky could have become Ike London? Note that Ike's
relative Kalman London stated on a census that he was >from Poland, so a
Polish name ending would not be too surprising.
Eleanor Gordon
egrdn@aol.com


Herb <herbiem@...>
 

"Errors" not only appear on Passenger lists but also on death
certificates , social security applications and census records. Some
times the discrepancy is due to a misunderstanding of the person making
the entry but some are intentionally done by the person whose record is
involved. For various reasons some lie about age, alter spelling of
names >from time and simplify a response to to avoid a complex or
embarrassing explanation.

Herb Meyers
Boulder, Colorado

Diane Jacobs wrote in message

I hate to throw a damper on this connection, but naturalization
records are notorious for having incorrect information. I was doing
a search for someone for April 7, 1903 and three ships they said
their family came on at that time. I finally gave up looking for the
ships and went to the soundex indexes. I finally found the person
and lo and behold the April 7 was rightbut the year was l904.

There is no guarantee if any or part of the information you have
on the naturalization papers are incorrect.


Howard Zakai
 

In a message dated 01/18/2001 3:15:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
herbiem@mindspring.com writes:

<< Diane Jacobs wrote in message
>I hate to throw a damper on this connection, but naturalization
>records are notorious for having incorrect information. I was doing
>a search for someone for April 7, 1903 and three ships they said
>their family came on at that time. I finally gave up looking for the
>ships and went to the soundex indexes. I finally found the person
>and lo and behold the April 7 was rightbut the year was l904.
>
>There is no guarantee if any or part of the information you have
>on the naturalization papers are incorrect. >>

Indeed you are correct. I have learned that passengers coming before 1906
did not have to prove when they arrived. But afterwards, they did. My
great-grandfather had his certificate of arrival with his naturalization
papers so everything matched up, but he listed his wife's arrival
incorrectly as he did not have to prove her arrival.
I have unfortunately learned not to take all information seriously.
Soundex indicies, although harder to research are infallible.

Howie Zakai
Staten Island, NY


Hilary Henkin <hilary@...>
 

Dear Howie,
You mentioned that your "great-grandfather had his certificate of arrival
with his naturalization papers so everything matched up, but he listed his
wife's arrival incorrectly as he did not have to prove her arrival."

Contrary to common assumption, the Certificate of Arrival was *not* issued
at the time of arrival. It was issued after the Declaration of Intention
was filed, confirming that the potential citizen had indeed arrived when
he or she stated, and had been in the US more than the minimum years
required. It means that a clerk looked at the Declaration of Intention,
and used that information to find the original passenger manifest. He or
she reviewed the manifest, found the individual, and confirmed the
information presented was correct. (This is also why sometimes people
find Certificate of Arrival numbers written on a passenger manifest)

The Certificate of Arrival was filed with the Declaration and the ensuing
Petition of Naturalization. It wasn't luck - it was bureaucracy.

I suspect the 1906 date you mentioned is because that's when the US
government standardized the naturalization process. Before then, the
process was left up to the individual courts.

Regards,
Hilary Henkin
Atlanta, Georgia


Joyce Weaver <joyweave@...>
 

Soundex infallible? Surely you jest. It's only as good as the ability of
the person who created the card to read the handwriting on the passenger
list. If an "L" with a flourish looks like an "S" or an "R" looks like a
"B", you'll never find your ancestor in the Soundex-- unless you get some
sort of psychic impulse to look at those alternates. (L-321 vs S-321)

Joy Weaver

JEDI318@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 01/18/2001 3:15:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
herbiem@mindspring.com writes:

<< Diane Jacobs wrote in message
>I hate to throw a damper on this connection, but naturalization
>records are notorious for having incorrect information. I was doing
>a search for someone for April 7, 1903 and three ships they said
>their family came on at that time. I finally gave up looking for the
>ships and went to the soundex indexes. I finally found the person
>and lo and behold the April 7 was rightbut the year was l904.
>
>There is no guarantee if any or part of the information you have
>on the naturalization papers are incorrect. >>

Indeed you are correct. I have learned that passengers coming before 1906
did not have to prove when they arrived. But afterwards, they did. My
great-grandfather had his certificate of arrival with his naturalization
papers so everything matched up, but he listed his wife's arrival
incorrectly as he did not have to prove her arrival.
I have unfortunately learned not to take all information seriously.
Soundex indicies, although harder to research are infallible.

Howie Zakai
Staten Island, NY
mailto:jedi318@aol.com