Camenetz or Podolsk #general


marie darrer <offsides@...>
 

I am so excited! About 2 weeks ago I sent away to Kings County for my
husband's great-grandfather's declaration of intention and petition
for naturalization. They arrived in Today's mail!!!
Now for my newest confusion:
On the declaration his birth place is said to be Camenetz, but on the
petition it is said to be Podolsk. Can anyone suggest what I should do
to reconcile these two bits of information.
Also he lists 4 children, and while we always thought that there were
four children, one of the names is familiar to no one in the family. Is
Zaura a common name? Is it a man or a woman's name? Could Zaura and
Sydney be the same person? The other names all match my husband's
family's recollections, pictures, etc except that one! Also, a
curiousity is that my husband's dad swears that his grandpa never knew
his birthday and on the petition and declaration he uses his son's
birthday as his own. Maybe they are the same, but my husband's father
thinks that his grandpa may have just decided to share with his son for
the purpose of the paper work. Any thoughts??
i hope this isn't too much to ask at once, I think perhaps I am just too
excited as this is the first real lead we have gotten on this part of
the family!!
Thanks to all in the group, so many of the posts have helped me in my
research!!
Marie Guidobaldi Darrer

Searching: DARRER, EPSTEIN, SHAPIRO, SILVERSTEIN, NEWMAN
GUIDOBALDI, BALDASSARRE, DEL GROSSO, CIPRIANI


B J <bj445@...>
 

Dear Marie,

If you look in the ShtetlFinder at JewishGen, you will find
KAMENETS-PODOL'SK or KAMENEZ-PODOLSK located at 4840/2634 in
Ukraine. It is also listed on my copy of a map >from The Great
International Atlas, by Portland House, New York, 1987, as
Kaments-Podolskiy. Good luck on the rest of your mystery.

Barbara Sloan
Wallingford, CT

Searching SLATAS/ZLATES,/SLATIS, SANKTIN/SENKTON/SANCTON,
SLONIMSKY/SLONIMSKI, WEINGER/WENGER, PASSIN--Belarus, Lithuania
and USA

Subject: Camenetz or Podolsk
From: marie darrer <offsides@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:54:11 -0500
... On the declaration his birth place is said to be Camenetz,
but on the petition it is said to be Podolsk. Can anyone suggest
what I should do to reconcile these two bits of information.

MODERATOR NOTE: You can find the Jewishgen ShtetlSeeker at
http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/


MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 3/2/2002 10:49:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
offsides@bellatlantic.net writes:

<< my husband's great-grandfather's declaration of intention and
petition for naturalization. . . .
On the declaration his birth place is said to be Camenetz, but on the
petition it is said to be Podolsk. Can anyone suggest what I should do
to reconcile these two bits of information.
==Kamenets-Podolski (the exact spelling varies with the current
sovereignty of the town) is a town in Ukraine with a hyphenated name.
I don't know whether, like Buda and Pest, it refers to two once separated
cities that were combined, or whether the Podolski is a classifier to
explain which Kamenets (the district is known as Podolia; ShtettelSeeker
[soundex] coughed up 273 different locations in a search for Kamenetz!).
It was once an important Jewish city, and in its heyday, in 1914 it had
a Jewish population of over 20,000, constituting almost half the
population.

. . . Is Zaura a common name? Is it a man or a woman's name? Could Zaura
and Sydney be the same person?
==I don't find that spelling in Beider's dictionary of first names. I
guess it may be an idiosyncratic spelling for the Hebrew male name
Zerach or Zorach or for the biblical female name Sarah. In America,
the parents would have been free to chose any name they chose for a son
(or daughter) and Sidney is a neatly unisex name.

. . . . grandpa never knew his birthday and on the petition and
declaration he uses his son's birthday as his own. . . . my husband's
father thinks that his grandpa may have just decided to share with his
son for the purpose of the paper work.
==Very likely. We had a lengthy discussion here on this question just
a few weeks ago. Jews in Eastern Europe were often little concerned with
birthdates in the old country (which would vary according to whether
the ruling government at the time followed the Julian or Gregorian
calendars). Many therefore chose an arbitrary birth date when they
came west

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER


Simon Barak
 

The town of Kamenets Podolski, or Podolian Kamenets is built on a high
rocky bluff of the Smotrich, a left-hand tributary of the Dniester (4843
North 2635 East). It is on the historical frontier of Ukraine and
Bessarabia, opposite the castle of Khotin. The town has changed hands
numerous times in history and   been, among others, under Polish,
Russian, Turks, Tartars, Moldavian and Mongol rule.

Dr Shimon Barak, Tel Aviv, Israel.

Researching the following surnames:
BARG, BARK, BARCK, BERG (Anywhere but especially Ukraine & Argentina)
Please visit our Homepage at www.geocities.com/bargfamily/
MAURER, NEUMANN (Drohobycz, Boryslaw and Lwow)
TACHMAN, TAJMAN, TAKHMAN, TOKER (Chisinau, Argentina)
HOLZMANN (Przasnysz, Poland and Israel)
SILBERSTEIN (Warsaw and Tel Aviv)

marie darrer wrote:

.....my husband's great-grandfather.......On the declaration his birth
place is said to be Camenetz, but on the petition it is said to be
Podolsk.  Can anyone suggest what I should do
to reconcile these two bits of information.


Joe Izen
 

Marie,

Kamenets-Podolsk is a relatively large town in the Podolsk or
Podolsky region of the Ukraine. It has a history going back to
medieval times, it still has a really neat castle, and it had a large
Jewish community. A fair number of Jews left thanks to Petliura's
pogroms in the region and were spared the experience of the
Einsatzgruppen that murdered most of the Podolsky Jewish population,
along with thousands of transported Hungarian Jews >from Budapest
during WWII. You can find eye witness testimony about this in
Eichmann's trial.

There is a small Jewish community still living in KP today. There is
a fair amount that has been published about KP. If I recall, there
is a book entitled "KP and its Environs", and there is ample mention
along with other shtetls in "The Road >from Letichev". As Ukrainian
shtetls go, it is a relatively easy one to visit.

-Joe

Plano, TX
IZEN, AIZEN, KOHAN - Nova Ushitsa, Ukraine
LIEBOWITZ, LEBOWITZ - Jassy/Iasi Roumanis
ROSENTHAL - Bucharest, Roumania


Alexander Sharon
 

"marie darrer" wrote:

... On the declaration his birth place is said to be Camenetz, but
on the petition it is said to be Podolsk. Can anyone suggest what I
should do to reconcile these two bits of information.
Marie,

Podolia (Ukrainian: Podilia) where >from "Podolsk" is derived, is the
name of the historical region located in the modern Ukraine.
It has been ruled in the past by Poland and Russia.

During the Russian Imperial rule this region was known as Podolskaya
Guberniya (The Governorship or Province).

Current town name in Ukrainian is Kamyanets Podilskiy but one will often
encounter its previous Russian equivalent name, Kamenets Podolskiy when
searching through the genealogical sources.

Known Jewish gazetteer, WOWW, provides another alternatives for this town
name: Kamenets Podolsk and Komenitz Podolsk.

As to summarize: town name is Kamenets Podolskiy (as it listed in 404
entries in JGFF dtabase).

Alexander Sharon
CAlagary, Alberta