Topics

Chassidic dress #general


rosinskyb
 

Hi all.
I have pictures of family members at the turn of the 20th century (some
end of 19th century). I know that it is possible to categorize a
tradiional jew by his clothing: Is he a Chassid or a Mitnaged and if a
Chassid, what group he belonged to. Is there a reference book that can
help me determine where I should categorize my ancestor?
Can I deduce more facts >from just a picture?
Thanks,
Bernard Rosinsky


R <ruthien@...>
 

Bernard Rosinsky wrote:

I have pictures of family members at the turn of the 20th century (some
end of 19th century). I know that it is possible to categorize a
tradiional jew by his clothing: Is he a Chassid or a Mitnaged and if a
Chassid, what group he belonged to. Is there a reference book that can
help me determine where I should categorize my ancestor?
Can I deduce more facts >from just a picture?
In general, you can deduce little >from such a picture. Traditional dress
in Russia, for instance, was virtually identical among both chasidim and
misnagdim. And in Lithuania, the dress was somewhat different >from in
Russia, but there again, chassidim and traditional misnagdim dressed
nearly alike. Ditto for Poland, and for Galicia, Hungary, etc. So while
the manner of dress in the picture might indicate the country of origin,
and that the person wore what was in those days traditional Jewish
garb in that country, it will indicate little else about the person.
Certainly not what "kind" of chassid the person might be.

One exception might be Vizhnitz Chassidim. As far as I know, they were and
are the only ones to wear their hat backwards, with the bow on the band
tied on the right side instead of the left.

Moshe Siechmach


Robert Israel <israel@...>
 

Bernard Rosinsky wrote:
I have pictures of family members at the turn of the 20th century (some
end of 19th century). I know that it is possible to categorize a
tradiional jew by his clothing: Is he a Chassid or a Mitnaged and if a
Chassid, what group he belonged to. Is there a reference book that can
help me determine where I should categorize my ancestor?
Can I deduce more facts >from just a picture?
In general, you can deduce little >from such a picture. Traditional dress
in Russia, for instance, was virtually identical among both chasidim and
misnagdim. And in Lithuania, the dress was somewhat different >from in
Russia, but there again, chassidim and traditional misnagdim dressed
nearly alike. Ditto for Poland, and for Galicia, Hungary, etc.
The one thing I have heard is that chassidic men generally button their
coats right-over-left (for kabbalistic reasons) while misnagdim most
commonly do it left-over-right.

Robert Israel
israel@math.ubc.ca
http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel
Vancouver, BC, Canada


Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@...>
 

On 2002.08.25, Bernard Rosinsky <rosinskyb@yahoo.com> wrote:

I have pictures of family members at the turn of the 20th century
(some end of 19th century). I know that it is possible to categorize
a tradiional Jew by his clothing: Is he a Chassid or a Mitnaged and
if a Chassid, what group he belonged to. Is there a reference book
that can help me determine where I should categorize my ancestor?
Though nowadays it is usually possible to ascertain Chasidic
affiliation by dress, it is important to note that one hundred years
ago it was not only the Chassidim who wore a particular dress,
rather it depended generally on specific geographical location and
sometimes social status (i.e., a rabbi would have a specific type of
dress) the Chasidim were the ones who chose to retain the
traditional dress and thus are there only ones wearing for instance
Polish/Galician traditional Jewish clothing. On the other hand
there were very few Misnagdim in Poland at the turn of the century,
most were in Lithuania, although many Jews in Polan and Galicia were
not Chasidic per se, they were not opposed to Chassidus and would
occassionally even visit a Rebbe.

Avraham Heschel
Brooklyn, NY


MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 8/27/2002 12:15:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
israel@math.ubc.ca writes:

I have pictures of family members at the turn of the 20th century (some
>> end of 19th century). I know that it is possible to categorize a
>> tradiional jew by his clothing: Is he a Chassid or a Mitnaged and if a
>> Chassid, what group he belonged to. Is there a reference book that can
>> help me determine where I should categorize my ancestor?
>> Can I deduce more facts >from just a picture? >>

==It depends in part of the extent they are *in uniform,* though perhaps
more so than in the past. Today, shtreimels (furred bonnets worn on
Shabbat and festive occasions, come in many shapes and varieties, as do
the black hats. Some wear long black kapotes, others wear striped ones or
colored. Some wear lace-up shoes, others don't, pantlegs may be stuffed
into the socks, some wear white socks . . . and it's mostly a matter of
what the *rebbe* wore and when.

I remember as a child playing with my father's collection of cigarette
cards showing the various uniforms of the regiments in the Kaiser's army.
I wonder whether anyone has published an album or a set of cards showing
the *uniforms*--festive and quotidian--of the various chasidic sects.

Michael Bernet, New York <mBernet@aol.com>

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina);
BERNET, BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER


éåðúï áï àøé <yonatan@...>
 

If I am not mistaken there are some individual dress customs unique to
various chassidic groups, eg: to the best of my knowledge Gerer Chassidim
place their socks over the bottom of their pant and only wear loafer
without shoelaces.

Shana tova, a happy and healthy new year to all of G-ds creations.

Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem/Efrat

-----Original Message-----
From: R [mailto:ruthien@concentric.net]
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:18 AM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: Re: Chassidic dress
Bernard Rosinsky wrote:

I have pictures of family members at the turn of the 20th century (some
end of 19th century). I know that it is possible to categorize a
tradiional jew by his clothing: Is he a Chassid or a Mitnaged and if a
Chassid, what group he belonged to. Is there a reference book that can
help me determine where I should categorize my ancestor?
Can I deduce more facts >from just a picture?
In general, you can deduce little >from such a picture. Traditional dress
in Russia, for instance, was virtually identical among both chasidim and
misnagdim. And in Lithuania, the dress was somewhat different >from in
Russia, but there again, chassidim and traditional misnagdim dressed
nearly alike. Ditto for Poland, and for Galicia, Hungary, etc. So while
the manner of dress in the picture might indicate the country of origin,
and that the person wore what was in those days traditional Jewish
garb in that country, it will indicate little else about the person.
Certainly not what "kind" of chassid the person might be.

One exception might be Vizhnitz Chassidim. As far as I know, they were and
are the only ones to wear their hat backwards, with the bow on the band
tied on the right side instead of the left.

Moshe Siechmach


R <ruthien@...>
 

Robert Israel wrote:
Bernard Rosinsky wrote:
I have pictures of family members at the turn of the 20th century
(some end of 19th century). I know that it is possible to categorize a
tradiional jew by his clothing: Is he a Chassid or a Mitnaged and if a
Chassid, what group he belonged to. Is there a reference book that can
help me determine where I should categorize my ancestor?
Can I deduce more facts >from just a picture?
In general, you can deduce little >from such a picture. Traditional dress
in Russia, for instance, was virtually identical among both chasidim and
misnagdim. And in Lithuania, the dress was somewhat different >from in
Russia, but there again, chassidim and traditional misnagdim dressed
nearly alike. Ditto for Poland, and for Galicia, Hungary, etc.
The one thing I have heard is that chassidic men generally button their
coats right-over-left (for kabbalistic reasons) while misnagdim most
commonly do it left-over-right.
Yes, I had forgotten that. And while there are exceptions on both
sides, for the most part this is correct.

But unless some written or printed material appears in the
photograph, or some other visual clue as to right/left
orientation, it is hard to tell whether right and left are
correctly represented in an old photo, or whether the negative
was printed with the emulsion side away >from the paper, resulting
in an image with right/left reversed.

There is a famous photograph of a person wh appears to be the
Lubavitcher Rebbe in his youth conversing with an elderly
gentelman on a street somewhere, and the Rebbe's coat is buttoned
left over right, which would be incorrect for a chassid.. Careful
examination of a computer-enhanced image reveals a sign in a
store front, in which the lettering in reversed. Thus, a correct
rendering of the image would have the Rebbe's coat buttoned right
over left.

Moshe Siechmach
Fine Art and Linoleum