Trepman VS Trejbman - your opinion #general


Rose Feldman <rosef@...>
 

When using the soundex-Daitch-Mokotoff to look for the name TREPMAN on the
"All Belarus Database" 19 listings with the spelling TREJBMAN. I would like
to hear someone's opinion if they could be the same surname or not.

Rose Feldman
rosef@post.tau.ac.il
EPSTEIN/BOYARSKY Amstiveva, Mstibov or Mstibovo or Mscibow (Belarus);
Ruzhany or maybe Rozhno; Petach Tikvah, Chicago, Argentine
GITNER/LULKIN/REZNIK Litin (Lityn) Ukraine,Kalinovka Ukraine, Israel,
Chicago
ILEWICKI/ILIWITSKY/ELEVITSKY Kusava Grodno Belarus
TREPMAN/SOJCHER/SLOVIK Warsaw, Israel
FELDMAN/LICHT Warsaw, Israel


sallybru <sallybru@...>
 

When looking for ancestors, one of the things to keep in mind was that
clerks spelled names by 'how they sounded' in many instances. If a Polish
or Russian clerk had to write a Yiddish name, the same thing happened as
when an Ellis Island clerk or a US census taker heard an unfamiliar name.
So my gr grandmother, Rachel Lowenstein, was listed as Rachel Livingston on
her daughter's birth record in New York. And Trejbman could easily become
Trepman.

It is, however, not necessarily the same person or the same family. If I
didn't have other information about my grandmother's family, I wouldn't know
for sure that I had the right birth record, and you can't know that any
Trepman is necessarily 'your' Trejbman. You need other information to make
that decision.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY


Susana Leistner Bloch
 

I have a problem with Soundex / surnames. It seems to work fairly well
with town names but surnames, and I am only referring to Yiddish / German
surnames ( since this is all I know <grin> don't work so well.

As far as a surname like TREPMAN, the variations would usually be TREFMAN,
with a possibility of TREIPMAN or TREIFMAN.
TREJBMAN on the other hand would become TREIBMAN, TREYBMAN.
If it ever became TREPMAN it would be more probable a misspelling than a
"sound alike".

Of course this "true and fast" rule does not always apply but both surnames
are well known Yiddish surnames and I have never seen them interchanged.

Regards,

Susana

At 12:00 AM 9/1/2002 -0500, Rose Feldman wrote:


When using the soundex-Daitch-Mokotoff to look for the name TREPMAN on the
"All Belarus Database" 19 listings with the spelling TREJBMAN . I would like
to hear someone's opinion if they could be the same surname or not.

Rose Feldman
rosef@post.tau.ac.il
EPSTEIN/BOYARSKY Amstiveva, Mstibov or Mstibovo or Mscibow (Belarus);
Ruzhany or maybe Rozhno; Petach Tikvah, Chicago, Argentine
GITNER/LULKIN/REZNIK Litin (Lityn) Ukraine,Kalinovka Ukraine, Israel,
Chicago
ILEWICKI/ILIWITSKY/ELEVITSKY Kusava Grodno Belarus
TREPMAN/SOJCHER/SLOVIK Warsaw, Israel
FELDMAN/LICHT Warsaw, Israel






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Teresa Snow Galloway <trg1@...>
 

I must disagree. I wrote to Ms. Feldman privately before, but TREPMAN and
TREJBMAN could very easily be sound alikes. We don't know >from Ms.
Feldman's letter who did the transcription--whether the ancestor wrote his
or her own name or whether an immigration officer or someone else did. In
which case P and B sound very alike, especially word-medially. E represents
a short vowel in English, but in other writing systems represents a long
vowel and in both cases EJ is a related diphthong so I can certainly see one
being replaced by the other.

While I do agree that not every Soundex match is a good one; this one seems
perfectly plausible.

Teresa Galloway
Department of Linguistics
Cornell University

----- Original Message -----
From: "Susana Leistner Bloch" <bloch@mts.net>
To: "JRI-Poland" <jri-pl@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 3:24 AM
Subject: [jri-pl] Re: Trepman VS Trejbman - your opinion

As far as a surname like TREPMAN, the variations would usually be
TREFMAN,
with a possibility of TREIPMAN or TREIFMAN.
TREJBMAN on the other hand would become TREIBMAN, TREYBMAN.
If it ever became TREPMAN it would be more probable a misspelling than a
"sound alike".

Of course this "true and fast" rule does not always apply but both
surnames
are well known Yiddish surnames and I have never seen them interchanged.

Regards,

Susana


Susana Leistner Bloch
 

If you must you must. I too am a linguist, a translator by training, with
a BA in Romance languages and with a fair English and German. My opinion
was not based on my "educational learning" of languages but on my
experience of Yiddish ( my mother tongue) and by the work I have been doing
in genealogy research. I have cooperated in the revision and correction of
Yizkor Book Necrology lists and have a good working knowledge of how
surnames can be "transformed" by immigration officers, etc...

If you say TREPMAN in Yiddish and I have asked my mother to read it aloud
for me you do not get TREJBAN. You could possibly get TREBMAN by "not
hearing it so well" But no way saying it allowed a few times or asking
my mother to do so did we get anything that even sounded as if it had an I
or J.

As they would say in Yiddish: " a treiber is nisht a treper"

We can agree to disagree.

Susana

At 09:55 PM 9/1/2002 -0400, you wrote:
I must disagree. I wrote to Ms. Feldman privately before, but TREPMAN and
TREJBMAN could very easily be sound alikes. We don't know >from Ms.
Feldman's letter who did the transcription--whether the ancestor wrote his
or her own name or whether an immigration officer or someone else did. In
which case P and B sound very alike, especially word-medially. E represents
a short vowel in English, but in other writing systems represents a long
vowel and in both cases EJ is a related diphthong so I can certainly see one
being replaced by the other.

While I do agree that not every Soundex match is a good one; this one seems
perfectly plausible.

Teresa Galloway
Department of Linguistics
Cornell University

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