Levy/Halevy Segal #general


rromem <meirromem@...>
 

Dear Genners,

My maternal family back to greatgrandfather are known to us as LEVY.
Then on a death record I found great grandfather as Abraham Istchak ben
Meir HALEVY SEGAL.

How should I react to this. ? Should I now research registers and lists for
SEGAL? I havn't spotted any HALEVY SEGALS online. Any other comments please?

Thanks

Ros Romem


MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 12/29/2002 9:57:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
meirromem@rogers.com writes:

<< My maternal family back to greatgrandfather are known to us as LEVY.
Then on a death record I found great grandfather as Abraham Istchak ben
Meir HALEVY SEGAL.

How should I react to this. ? Should I now research registers and lists
for SEGAL? I havn't spotted any HALEVY SEGALS online. Any other comments
please?
SEGAL (but not Siegel), spelled Samekh-gimmal-lamed, is a name used to
indicate Levitical ancestry and is used also with other names as an
indication that the person is a Levite. SEGAL is said to be an acronym,
with a number of different provenances. There is much doubt about the
accuracy of the explanation for the SEGAL term (often written as an
abbreviation, with a "double quote" between the middle and last letter,
i.e. SeGa"L). The term goes back 1000 years among Ashkenazim. I am
currently researching a more likely explanation.

It is not unreasonable that an ancestor may have alternated between the
Levy/haLevy designations and the Segal designation, and may occasionally
have used both--and in either order. A Levite's tombstone usually shows a
water pitcher (often tilted, sometimes with a basin, sometimes held in a
hand) reflecting the Levite's only remaining duty, that of washing the
hands of the Kohanim before these mount the Dukhan to recite the threefold
blessing.

In earlier times (and still today among the very religious) surnames are
not mentioned on a tombstone, only the name of the person, the name of the
father, and the status if a Kohen or a Levi.

Your ancestor, Abraham Istchak [sic?] ben Meir HALEVY SEGAL. would have
been called for religious purposes Avraham Yitshak son of Meir, the
Levite, and the SG"L would have been a duplicate flourish to the name

Michael Bernet New York mBernet@aol.com.


Ira Leviton
 

Ros Romen wrote:

"My maternal family back to greatgrandfather are known to us as LEVY.
Then on a death record I found great grandfather as Abraham Istchak ben
Meir HALEVY SEGAL."

"How should I react to this? Should I now research registers and lists
for SEGAL? I havn't spotted any HALEVY SEGALS online. Any other comments
please?"


I agree with Michael Bernet's comments, and add the following: the
explanation that I have been told is that Sagal (I use this spelling
because it more accurately reflects the pronounciation) is an acronym for
Sagan Levi, which translates as "assistant, Levi". In this instance,
assistant means that the Levi helped the Kohanim, as in washing their
hands, but I'm sure that I'm not the only one who thinks it seems
redundant, since Leviim have always assisted Kohamim.

It's becomes doubly redundant because the lammed in Sagal, as in Abraham
Istchak ben Meir HaLevy Sagal, is for Levi denotes exactly the same thing
as Halevy. But names were definitely used this way; my father has told me
that in Poland, his father was indeed called to the torah in this way
(i.e., HaLevy Sagal); however my father he dropped the double terminology
after he came to the U.S.A. because he couldn't figure it out and nobody
could explain it to him.

Because of the redundancy, I've also thought that there may be better
explanation, but I've never heard of one.

Sagal is also the reason why so many people with the last name Segal (or
even Siegel) are Leviim.

Ira Leviton (yes, a Levi)
New York, N.Y.

searching:
LEWITAN (Rypin and Myszyniec, Pol.), NIEDOBITEK (Rypin, Pol.), BLANK
(Niedzwiada and Ropczyce, Pol.), REBHUN/RAPHAN/etc. (Rzemien and Ropczyce,
Pol.), STRICK (Mielec and Ropczyce, Pol.), KORN (Gorlice and Ropczyce,
Pol.), and ATLAS (Wien/Vienna, Austria)


MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 12/30/2002 9:08:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
iraleviton@yahoo.com writes:

<< Sagal is also the reason why so many people with the last name Segal (or
even Siegel) are Leviim.

Ira Leviton (yes, a Levi)
New York, N.Y. >>

==Some, but not all that many. Siegel is spelled in Hebrew
samekh-yod-gimmal-lamed; Segal is ALWAYS spelled without the yod.

Siegel can have been a sealmaker, a brickmaker, or an abbreviated
Siegalnovsky etc. If a person surnamed Siegel is truly a Levite, it's a
conicidence or a misspelling. The correct pronunciation, if it is indeed an
acronym meaning deputy, is Segal, not Sagal because the first vowel of
Segen/Segan is a sounded shva, not a patach. What I am increasingly coming
to believe is that the true origin of the name also requires an "e" for the
first vowel.

Michael Bernet Halevi (don't bother with the SG"L bit).
-------------------------------------


MHKalman/GFRenk
 

My Zeida Bernat Segal was a Levi.
His brothers, also Levi's, changed their spellings to
Segall and Siegel.
Marilyn Kalman
Vancouver BC Canada

----- Original Message -----
From: <MBernet@aol.com>
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group"
<jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Levy/Halevy Segal

| In a message dated 12/30/2002 9:08:42 PM Eastern
Standard Time,
| iraleviton@yahoo.com writes:
|
| << Sagal is also the reason why so many people with the
last name Segal (or
| even Siegel) are Leviim.
|
| Ira Leviton (yes, a Levi)
| New York, N.Y. >>
|
| ==Some, but not all that many. Siegel is spelled in
Hebrew
| samekh-yod-gimmal-lamed; Segal is ALWAYS spelled
without the yod.
|
| Siegel can have been a sealmaker, a brickmaker, or an
abbreviated
| Siegalnovsky etc. If a person surnamed Siegel is truly
a Levite, it's a
| conicidence or a misspelling. The correct
pronunciation, if it is indeed an
| acronym meaning deputy, is Segal, not Sagal because
the first vowel of
| Segen/Segan is a sounded shva, not a patach. What I am
increasingly coming
| to believe is that the true origin of the name also
requires an "e" for the
| first vowel.
Michael Bernet Halevi (don't bother with the SG"L bit).


MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 12/31/2002 3:56:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
artists1@mdi.ca writes:

<< My Zeida Bernat Segal was a Levi. His brothers, also Levi's, changed their
spellings to Segall and Siegel.
Marilyn Kalman
Vancouver BC Canada >>

==If he was a Levi, so would his father, sons and brothers; it's hereditary.
We, the BERNETs, a name borne by no other Jewish family, are also Levites,
originating >from the area of Bamberg, Bavaria. We know that some members of
the family went to Eastern Canada in the late 19th century. What do you know
of the history of Bernat Segal?

Happy 2003

Michael Bernet New York


ariewish@...
 

Hi,

As far as I know Levy is/was a helper to the Cohanim. HaLevy (The Levy)was used
to differentiate between Moshe The Balegule, Moshe The Levy, or Moshe The
Cohen. Sgan "sameh, gimel, nun" (in modern Hebrew) means second to (Second to
the person in charge), therefore, if Sgan is an assistant, and "Segan"
or "Segal" is also an assistant, then "Sega(n)(l)" before the Levy means that
the person was an assistant to a Levy. As a Levy, I know (>from Hejder) that I
was to assist a Cohen. I do not recall (its over 58 years) that the Leviates
had also assistants.

Arie Wishnia
Ft. Myers, Fl.


MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 12/31/2002 8:44:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ariewish@att.net writes:

<< As far as I know Levy is/was a helper to the Cohanim.
==Permit me, please, to give my response as a Levite.

==The Levites had their own duties as scribes and teachers; some of them
were singers or instrumentalists in the Temple in Jerusalem, some did assist
the Kohanim in the Temple duties. The only duties the Levites now perform is
to wash the hands of the Kohanim before these mount to the dukhan to
pronounce the threefold blessing.

HaLevy (The Levy)was used to differentiate between Moshe The Balegule, Moshe
The Levy, or Moshe The Cohen.
==haLevy or haKohen is a title that was always used as an indicator of
status, not as a means of differention. It was/is an integral part of the
correct Hebrew name, Shem haKadosh, used in religious contexts--circumcision,
reading the Torah, marriage, divorce, ill-health, death, memorial, tombstone.
The Levy (or a derivative like Levine, Levinson, Levitas) was used by some
as a surname, in addition to the Levy title.

Sgan "sameh, gimel, nun" (in modern Hebrew) means second to (Second to the
person in charge), therefore, if Sgan is an assistant, and "Segan"
or "Segal" is also an assistant, then "Sega(n)(l)" before the Levy means
that
the person was an assistant to a Levy.
==SegEn is a deputy, not a second nor an assistant--deputy prime minister,
deputy chairperson, deputy clinic head, lieutenant [to a captain--the
original French usage of the military term]. Segan means "deputy to." SegeL
means, among other things, a corpus, staff, bureaucracy etc. Segan and Segel
are not the same in meaning.

As a Levy, I know (>from Hejder) that I was to assist a Cohen. I do not recall
(its over 58 years) that the Leviates had also assistants.
==Again, the only assistance was to wash the Kohen's hands on the rare
occasion when he was about to pronounce the threefold blessing.

==There is no mention anywhere in history that the Levites were considered
deputies to Kohanim. The term Segal, its application to Levites, and the
explanation that it meant Segan Leviyah, did not arise before the 11th
century in Europe. I believe the attribution is erroneous. I am researching
the topic and hope to include it in a forthcoming article, together with one
or two other puzzling Jewish name combinations.

Call me haLevy; do't bother with the Segal ;-)

Michael Bernet, New York