Census Puzzle #general


Barbara Siegel <imsiegel@...>
 

Dear Genners,
On the family index card of my PGM used to access final census data I found the
following notation in reference to birthplace: GRMY PRWR Aftet consulting
with other researchers and the staff at NARA it was agreed that GRMY stands for
"Germany" However, no one had an answer for the "PRWR" The best guess was "Pre
War" This combination GRMY PRWR was noted for many listings as I scrolled thru
rolls of mirofilm.

Does anyone have any clues as to the meaning of PRWR on census index cards?

Barbara Siegel bsiegel@netvisioin.net.il
Jerusalem/Chicago

Searching: HERTZBERG: Tukums,Latvia; Posen,Prussia FRIEDLANDER: Ventspils,
Bausk,Auce Latvia LEVINSON,:Grobin. Courland WULF:Courland BERSHADSKY,: Tulchin,
Ukraine


nitram <martin@...>
 

I did a search for prwr and found that this question has been going on
for years and I could find no definitive answer.

According to my search three things are possible (1) prwr means prewar.
This seemed to be disregarded immediately because it was found on 1910
census and how would anyone know that a war was coming ... hence pre
war makes no sense. (2) pr wr could mean prisoner of war, and (3) some
individuals found grmy prwr on census' >from people they were sure were
from Russia. Some think that it may be an early means of some machine
presorting code.

However, I am intrigued and I will keep searching.

Martin Kleiner


Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:48:14 UTC, martin@insytecorp.com (nitram)
opined:

I did a search for prwr and found that this question has been going on
for years and I could find no definitive answer.

According to my search three things are possible (1) prwr means prewar.
This seemed to be disregarded immediately because it was found on 1910
census and how would anyone know that a war was coming ... hence pre
war makes no sense. (2) pr wr could mean prisoner of war, and (3) some
individuals found grmy prwr on census' >from people they were sure were
from Russia. Some think that it may be an early means of some machine
presorting code.

However, I am intrigued and I will keep searching.

Martin Kleiner
"Keep searching" covers a multitude of sins, because it is amorphous.

Whatever its meaning, the string seems to be an ad hoc code for some
step in processing by the Census Bureau. This suggests that
application to the Census Bureau might disclose its meaning. The
website of this agency is at <http://www.census.gov>. In all
probability, there is a "Contact us" address or form somewhere on it.
--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address
is not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the
URL above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.


Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"nitram" <martin@insytecorp.com> wrote
I did a search for prwr and found that this question has been going on
for years and I could find no definitive answer.

According to my search three things are possible (1) prwr means prewar.
This seemed to be disregarded immediately because it was found on 1910
census and how would anyone know that a war was coming ... hence pre
war makes no sense. (2) pr wr could mean prisoner of war, and (3) some
individuals found grmy prwr on census' >from people they were sure were
from Russia. Some think that it may be an early means of some machine
presorting code.
This Census data >from the 1910 Census for Missouri shows that there are two
columns - the first is for the birthplace of the individual and the second
is the father's birthplace.

PRWR comes under father's birthplace.

This website
http://mailman.acomp.usf.edu/pipermail/genealib/2001-December.txt >from the
Genealogical Librarian at the Greensboro Public Library in North Carolina
has a contribution which concluded that it has no valuable meaning for
genealogists and that it was an early attempt to machine sort some of the
listings.

There is quite a discussion where specialists in genealogy are taking part
and it might be worth having a look.

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)


Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"nitram" <martin@insytecorp.com> wrote
I did a search for prwr and found that this question has been going on
for years and I could find no definitive answer.

According to my search three things are possible (1) prwr means prewar.
This seemed to be disregarded immediately because it was found on 1910
census and how would anyone know that a war was coming ... hence pre
war makes no sense. (2) pr wr could mean prisoner of war, and (3) some
individuals found grmy prwr on census' >from people they were sure were
from Russia. Some think that it may be an early means of some machine
presorting code.
This has already been dealt with recently. It is discussed, for instance, in
the thread http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GEN-DE/2003-02/1044169382.
--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)


Lisa Lepore <llepore@...>
 

This website has the instructions for US census enumerators
for the various census years.

http://www.ipums.umn.edu/usa/voliii/tEnumInstr.html

There is no mention that this abbreviation - PRWR -
should be used - in fact the instructions are very specific
for instance; they were not supposed to use the designation
Austria-Hungary, but were supposed to write either Austria or
Hungary. Of course the enumerators did not always follow
these instructions, but at least there is a guide here.

I wonder if this PRWR was only used in certain areas of the
country? By a certain enumerator? If it was used in different
areas of the country, then it would seem to me that it would
reflect the common understanding of the name of a certain
area that the people were from. I think one would have to
read some newspapers of the day to see if this term was regularly
used to describe the area "Prussian Westphalia Rhineland",
or used by the immigrants themselves to describe where they
were from.

Lisa


Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 17:43:26 UTC, llepore@comcast.net (Lisa Lepore)
opined:

This website has the instructions for US census enumerators
for the various census years.

http://www.ipums.umn.edu/usa/voliii/tEnumInstr.html

There is no mention that this abbreviation - PRWR -
should be used - in fact the instructions are very specific
for instance; they were not supposed to use the designation
Austria-Hungary, but were supposed to write either Austria or
Hungary. Of course the enumerators did not always follow
these instructions, but at least there is a guide here.

I wonder if this PRWR was only used in certain areas of the
country? By a certain enumerator? If it was used in different
areas of the country, then it would seem to me that it would
reflect the common understanding of the name of a certain
area that the people were from. I think one would have to
read some newspapers of the day to see if this term was regularly
used to describe the area "Prussian Westphalia Rhineland",
or used by the immigrants themselves to describe where they
were from.

Lisa
Once more: It does not matter how "the immigrants themselves
[described] where they were from. Just as it was not up to the
immigrants to give themselves unsupported names, or even for
immigration officials to invent them, the place of birth on an
enumeration page indicates the sovereign political division in which
the person was born. This is as true for an immigrant as it is for a
native US citizen born abroad. There are rules, you see. These data
are collected for purposes of statisical analysis, and it simply would
not do for a birthplace to be noted as "Prussian Westphalia
Rhineland", or "Lomza Gobernia", or "Kamchatka".

If tis four-letter rubric was used, it indicates that it was to be
understood by those who would later be reviewing the enumeration
pages. Very clearly, it was not the invention of an especially
imaginative enumerator, because he was not the one for whom he was
preparing the pages. So it was an institutional device of some sort.
And if that is so, than the logical place to inquire about its meaning
is the Bureau of the Census. I don't understand why this is hard to
grasp.

Someone has suggested that it was part of a device for "machine
sorting". It seems very likely that it had something to do with
sorting, but nothing whatever to do with machines. Sorting for the
1910 Census was done manually with "Hollerith Cards", which were
large, square, pasteboard cards with a single row of holes around the
four edges. Each hole might, or might not, be cut out to the edge. To
sort, steel rods were inserted through specific combinations of holes
in a stack of cards, and then the stack picked up and shaken to see
which ones fell out (if that brief description is clear). The
Hollerith Company later devised machines to do this with cards of
different and more familiar size and shape, and became the
International Business Machines Company. But in 1910 there were no
machines.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the
URL is: http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return addressis
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.