What is "nee" in Polish? #general


Dr. Steven B. Tesser
 

In going through some JRI-Poland records, I found a couple of
abbreviations that I think I have interpreted, so I wanted to pass it
by you.

A child may have his surname listed as "Hilzenrad r Nagler" if his
father's surname is Hilzenrad and his mom was a Nagler. But the "f" is
the opposite. If Dave Chaskel and Lucy Rubinstein had a bouncing baby
boy Itzchok, his name would be Itzchok Rubinstein f Nagler.

So the rule seems to be [first name] + [father's name] r [mother's
name]

and

[first name] + [mother's name] f [father's name].

It probably makes sense in Polish.

A second question: the 3rd Military Mapping Survey of Austria-Hungary,
at
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm
the (East-West) longitudes seem to be off by about 17 degrees, 45
minutes. That is, the longitudes shown at the top of the map are
consistently 17 degrees, 45 minutes too high.

That would make sense if they started with the zero longitude running
(North-South) through the western end of cornwall, or something. Has
anyone noticed theis problem with the map?

Steven B. Tesser,

researching
Tesser: Tarnow, Debica, Wiewiorka
Jonas: Sanok
Turkel: Grabowice
Nagler: Nadworna, Kolomyya


Mark Halpern
 

In response to Steven's first issue:

"r" is for recte, which is Latin for correctly. So Hilzenrad r Nagler
means the surname Hilzenrad was used, but legally the surname Nagler
should have been used. Your assumption of Hilzenrad being the father's
surname and Nagler being the mother's surname is probably correct, but
you really need to interpret the "r" or recte based on the other facts
for the family. If the child was illegitimate (nieslubne in Polish),
your assumption is more credible.

"f" is for false, also a Latin term. Nagler f Hilzenrad for an
illegitimate child would likely mean that the father was Hilzenrad and
mother was Nagler, but this must be in context. There are no hard and
fast rules and has nothing to do with the Polish language.

I have seen many of these types of records >from Galicia and the
inconsistency of use >from town to town and registrar to registrar amazes
me.

To find more discussion of recte and false, search the JewishGen
Discussion Group Archives and the SIG Lists message Archive, especially
the Galicia SIG list.

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland AGAD Archive Coordinator

----- Original Message -----
In going through some JRI-Poland records, I found a couple of
abbreviations that I think I have interpreted, so I wanted to pass it
by you.

A child may have his surname listed as "Hilzenrad r Nagler" if his
father's surname is Hilzenrad and his mom was a Nagler. But the "f" is
the opposite. If Dave Chaskel and Lucy Rubinstein had a bouncing baby
boy Itzchok, his name would be Itzchok Rubinstein f Nagler.

So the rule seems to be [first name] + [father's name] r [mother's
name]

and

[first name] + [mother's name] f [father's name].

It probably makes sense in Polish.

Steven B. Tesser

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Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

"Dr. Steven B. Tesser" <stesser@...> wrote
A second question: the 3rd Military Mapping Survey of Austria-Hungary,
at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm
the (East-West) longitudes seem to be off by about 17 degrees, 45
minutes. That is, the longitudes shown at the top of the map are
consistently 17 degrees, 45 minutes too high.

That would make sense if they started with the zero longitude running
(North-South) through the western end of cornwall, or something. Has
anyone noticed theis problem with the map?
Quite correct and that is basically the case. Prior to the early 20th
century international agreement that settled on the Greenwich Meridian as
the Prime Meridian for everyone, each country selected its own Prime
Meridian. The British Empire and the US used the Greenwich Meridian. The
French Empire used the Paris Meridian, of course. The Austrian Empire used
the Ferro Meridian, which passes through Hierro (or Ferro) Island, the
western-most of the Canary Islands. This makes sense for a European land
power, as everything in Europe would have an East Longitude. Very little
opportunity for that messy math connected with comparing points on both
sides of the Prime Meridian.

The Ferro Meridian is 17 degrees 40 minutes East of the Greenwich Meridian.
Hence the difference you noted.


--
Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY


Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

"Peter Zavon" <pzavon@...> wrote
The Ferro Meridian is 17 degrees 40 minutes East of the Greenwich
Meridian.

Sorry about that. Ferro Meridian is *West* of Greenwich Meridian.

At 55 I still sometimes have difficulty telling my left >from my right.


--
Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY