Hi All,
On 2 Sep 2005, Stan Goodman, stated:
"Censuses, of course, can be tricky, because the
information is the unsubstantiated word of the interviewee.
...
You can tell an enumerator anything, and he will write it
down; that's the nature of censuses. Census data needs to be
confirmed by an independent source of the same information."

He is absolutely right. My g-grandfather listed on his
1920 census that he was naturalized. I sent for the
papers, but it was the wrong Benjamin BLITZER-this one

from Austria, not Russia, and totally different family

members. I tried the Bronx Naturalizations after
getting nowhere with the Superior Court, and the
worker there informed me that he had no records for
Benjamin or Beny BLITZER and that in most likelihood,
my Beny simply told the census taker what he thought
he would like to hear, and was never actually
naturalized. The Superior Court sent me very detailed
papers that I do not need of a person I do not know,
however the Bronx Court was kind enough to tell me
they would not waste my money by repeating the same
mistake and kindly sent me a complete refund.

Now that hindsight is 20/20, I do remember from
stories I was told, his son being the first in the
family to get his papers many years after Beny had
died. It goes to show not to believe everything you
read.
Shari Kantrow
Bloomfield, NJ


researching:
MEYER, KAFKA, KUPFER, SCHAFF -Russian/Poland>NY
BLITZER,KARPET,JACOBSON,LANDSMAN, BLITZMAN,BLAZER
PLATZMAN, REYITTS (REIZ)Kamenets-Podolskiy, Podolia >NY
HABERMAN,DICKMAN,SZWARZ- Bukaczowce,Siemikowce>NY
SCHNEIDER, MILBAUER, MEYER - Austria
SCHWARTZ,,SHAPIRO- Bursztyn,Kuropatniki-Galicia>NY

Hi All,
On 2 Sep 2005, Stan Goodman, stated:
"Censuses, of course, can be tricky, because the
information is the unsubstantiated word of the interviewee.
...
You can tell an enumerator anything, and he will write it
down; that's the nature of censuses. Census data needs to be
confirmed by an independent source of the same information."

Judging >from what is written elsewhere on this newsgroup this equally
applies to other forms that have been filled in, or answers given to
officials etc.

Before the modern era, and computers, there is no way of checking that two
sets of information were precisely the same. It is only in the last few
centuries, for instance, that spelling has been standardised.

In modern Censuses post-enumeration checks are used to test how reliable the
answers to questions in the Census. In some cases, adjustments are made to
the results of the Census to take account of this.


--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)

On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 18:13:53 UTC, hilary@... (Hilary
Henkin) opined:

Dear Howie,

You might want to consider trying to get copies of his naturalization
file. Unless he became a citizen very early (1880-90s, for example),
the documents could have his arrival details. At least, they'll
probably have other information you'll find interesting and useful.

You'l want to narrow down your search as much as possible.

If he lived in a certain area most of his live, for the time being,
assume he became a citizen there. But remember this is only an
assumption,and you may have to consider other regions as well

You'll want to find him in as many US censuses as you
can. Generally, they asked the year the person became a citizen, and
if not a citizen, whether they'd applied ("Pa") or were still a
foreigner ("Al"). If you're lucky, you'll find concensus, and have a
specific year or two to search.

Censuses, of course, can be tricky, because the information is the
unsubstantiated word of the interviewee. An example is that of my late
grandparents. In the 1900 census, they informed the numerator that
they arrived in 1898. In 1910, their arrival date was in 1896, and
they had been US citizens since 1902 (two years earlier than would
have been possible had they stuck with the 1898 arrival date; these
data were repeated in the 1920 census. One might think the difference
represents a subterfuge to enable them to become citizens a little
earlier than the calendar would otherwise warrant.

Oddly enough however, a thorough search of the records of the various
courts by which they might have been naaturalized (conducted by
another of their grandchildren who is an attorney practicing in those
courts) failed to find any evidence of naturalization whatever.

You can tell an enumerator anything, and he will write it down; that's
the nature of censuses. Census data needs to be confirmed by an
independent source of the same information.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.

Hi Judith -

There is excellent information about the US naturalization process
at the NARA website.
http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/naturalization/naturalization.html

Generally, a person had to live in the US for 2 yrs before being eligible
to file a declaration of intent, then wait an additional 3 years before the
process could be finalized. Over the years, these requirements were
changed, and there were different rules for women and minors.

A good book on the subject is They Became Americans, by Loretto Szucs.

Not all people who filed a declaration of intent followed through
to become a citizen. My 2nd great grandfather never became
a citizen although he did file a declaration 1899.

As far as the dates given by our ancestors in census and other
records, we can't always rely on them to be correct.

The best we can do is use these dates as a guideline to finding
the passenger records, then branch out systematically to other
years and other locations. Unfortunately, there were many ports
in addition to Ellis Island where they could have arrived. Although
there are many records on line now, there are also many that are
only on film at NARA, and others which have been lost.

My great grandmother arrived in Providence RI around 1908, but
the records for the Port of Providence at this time do not exist
[or at least they have not been found yet]

Lisa

Alan's post brings up an interesting question: what was the average
amount of time between Declarations of Intent and Petition for
Naturalization -- in NY, app. 1900?

I found a copy of my grandfather's Declaration among some papers
belonging to a cousin who inherited them but had no interest in learning
more about this ancestor. Some of the information on the Declaration
appeared to be erroneous -- probably deliberately on the part of my
grandfather . (He fudged about his age and his date of arrival -- two
habits he kept throughout his life.) I'm keeping in mind that this
information could be accurate and later information erroneous, but had
he immigrated when he states on this document, he would have been a
married man with two children at the age of 14. Doubtful.

I am now going to search for the final papers, and wonder where (which
year) to start. Was it a matter of weeks, months, or years between the
initial petition and final Petition? Was the entire process controlled
by the petitioner or by the Government at that time?

Judith Lipmanson

--
Subject: Re: Best approach to determining port of entry to US
From: "Alan D Glick" < aglick1@... >
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:23:07 -0400
X-Message-Number: 13

Naturalization Papers. In my own case my GF's Declaration of Intent

(first papers) had the date off by one week, but the Petition for
Naturalization (final papers) had the correct date. In addition to port of
entry, these papers told me the date of arrival, the approximate date of
departure, the name of the ship, where the ship embarked from, the
birthplace of my GF, his birthdate, current residence, occupation, age, his
original name, and his wife's birthyear. For me, most of this was a
treasure trove of new information.
I had also spent much time on the Ellis Island web site with a fruitless
search, until his Naturalization Papers told me he arrived in Boston. With
the info >from his papers I've ordered the passenger list >from my local FHL
branch and it should be arriving any day now.
Alan Glick >>>

Dear Howie,

You might want to consider trying to get copies of his naturalization
file. Unless he became a citizen very early (1880-90s, for example),
the documents could have his arrival details. At least, they'll
probably have other information you'll find interesting and useful.

You'l want to narrow down your search as much as possible.

If he lived in a certain area most of his live, for the time being,
assume he became a citizen there. But remember this is only an
assumption,and you may have to consider other regions as well

You'll want to find him in as many US censuses as you
can. Generally, they asked the year the person became a citizen, and
if not a citizen, whether they'd applied ("Pa") or were still a
foreigner ("Al"). If you're lucky, you'll find concensus, and have a
specific year or two to search.

With that information,you can research how to get citizenship records
for your particular locality - JewishGen Discussion Group Archives
can be a good resource. Some indexes may be online, some may on
microfilm and obtainable, and some may be neither.

Keep in mind his name may have been "Americanized" or changed radically.

Good luck!

Hilary Henkin
Atlanta, Georgia

Naturalization Papers. In my own case my GF's Declaration of Intent
(first papers) had the date off by one week, but the Petition for
Naturalization (final papers) had the correct date. In addition to port of
entry, these papers told me the date of arrival, the approximate date of
departure, the name of the ship, where the ship embarked from, the
birthplace of my GF, his birthdate, current residence, occupation, age, his
original name, and his wife's birthyear. For me, most of this was a
treasure trove of new information.
I had also spent much time on the Ellis Island web site with a fruitless
search, until his Naturalization Papers told me he arrived in Boston. With
the info >from his papers I've ordered the passenger list >from my local FHL
branch and it should be arriving any day now.
Alan Glick

What would be the best approach to determining where a specific person
entered the US? What documents (death certificate, etc.) would be of
the most asistance. It seemed that my Great Grandfather spelled his
name, both first and last, no less than 7 different ways. I have had
no success using Ellis Island records using various spellings, and
what I believe is his departure town to no avail, and will use
[a commercial site - name removed by the moderator] at the local lib. on
Friday to search Baltimore, Boston, Philadelphia, etc.

This failing, what documents would be most helpful, if any?

Howie