I have in hane a copy of my Grandfather's "Certificate of
Naturalization".

I am attempting to find his Mother's maiden name, but it is not on
this document. I believe that the actual filing certificate and
associated paperwork would have this. Is this correct?

There is a certificate number, a Petition number, and volume number on
the document. It was issued Albany, Albany County, NY, in 1920.

What is easiet route to get the filing paperwork asssociated with
this?

If I am asking a "basic" question, please indulge me. I am still new
to this.

Howie Axelrod

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:55:59 UTC, dmc@... (Doug Cohen) opined:

After 1906, all naturalizations were in the federal district court. You
need to find the archives of the district court in Albany (nearest NARA
branch -- either Pittsfield or Varick St. in Manhattan, I would assume) and
ask them for the naturalization petition. In the petition file, there will
also be a certificate showing the ship on which he arrived. Many NARA
branches have the ship manifests, whcih will show, among other things,
nearest relative left behind in the old country. Both of these documents
will be interesting to you!!

This is very interesting to me. I had been led to believe that
naturalizations were done in county courts as well, even after 1906.
Is this my misunderstanding? I have sought the natuaralization of my
pgf in the records of the pertinent county courts (Essex and Hudson
counties, in NJ) without success; have I been barking up the wrong
tree? That's easy to do >from this distance.

My tentative conclusion had been that he was not, in fact naturalized,
although he was telling census enumerators >from 1910 that he was a
citizen.

My recently devised "Plan B" is to get his 1929 passport application

from the State Department, as I know that he travelled abroad in that

year. Would that application contain information verifying his claim
of citizenship, so that I could find his petition for naturalization,
and learn when and on what vessel he arrived in the US in 1898? I have
searched for this thoroughly, but in vain, at NARA in Washington, as
records for that time, so I am told at NARA, were destroyed.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the
URL is: http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.

After 1906, all naturalizations were in the federal district court. You
need to find the archives of the district court in Albany (nearest NARA
branch -- either Pittsfield or Varick St. in Manhattan, I would assume) and
ask them for the naturalization petition. In the petition file, there will
also be a certificate showing the ship on which he arrived. Many NARA
branches have the ship manifests, whcih will show, among other things,
nearest relative left behind in the old country. Both of these documents
will be interesting to you!!

--
Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA
dmc@...

"Howie Axelrod" <highwind1@...> wrote

Dear Doug,

While this can be true, it is not always the case that passenger manifest
information will be in a naturalization petition file. Around 1922 the US
government changed the law and if you could prove you had been in the US for
six years or more, then you could apply for naturalization without the
certificate of arrival or other confirming ship information.

Diane Jacobs
Somerset, NJ

****
After 1906, all naturalizations were in the federal district court. You
need to find the archives of the district court in Albany (nearest NARA
branch -- either Pittsfield or Varick St. in Manhattan, I would assume) and
ask them for the naturalization petition. In the petition file, there will
also be a certificate showing the ship on which he arrived. Many NARA
branches have the ship manifests, whcih will show, among other things,
nearest relative left behind in the old country. Both of these documents
will be interesting to you!!

--
Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA
dmc@...

"Howie Axelrod" <highwind1@...> wrote

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:09:42 UTC, pzavon@... (Peter
Zavon) opined:

It is *not* correct to say that all naturalizations were performed in federal
court after 1906. Any court of record could perform naturalizations, and
many did. For example, the Supreme Court of New York County (Manhattan) has
a huge collection of massive bound volumes of naturalization records
performed by that court (a county court) - most of them after 1905.

After 1906 the court merely had to use forms specified by the Federal
government and to file a copy of the Petition for Naturalization with the
feds.

This is more like what I had understood. And the copies of the
Petitions are at NARA, so I could see them in Washington, once I can
define the date and court.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the
URL is: http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the
URL above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.

Dear Doug,

Would also like to add another comment - after 1906 not all naturalizations
Were done in US Federal Court. Those that were are at NARA in Manhattan,
But many people naturalized in NY State Court in Manhattan and these records
Are indexed at a fee based online database and also available at the Municipal
Archives Building 7th Floor, Division of Old Records. They not only have the
actual Copies of the petitions in large books, but you can make a copy of the
Petition >from microfilm while you are there.

Diane Jacobs
Somerset, NJ

****
After 1906, all naturalizations were in the federal district court. You
need to find the archives of the district court in Albany (nearest NARA
branch -- either Pittsfield or Varick St. in Manhattan, I would assume) and
ask them for the naturalization petition. In the petition file, there will
also be a certificate showing the ship on which he arrived. Many NARA
branches have the ship manifests, whcih will show, among other things,
nearest relative left behind in the old country. Both of these documents
will be interesting to you!!

--
Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA
dmc@...

"Howie Axelrod" <highwind1@...> wrote

It is *not* correct to say that all naturalizations were performed in federal
court after 1906. Any court of record could perform naturalizations, and
many did. For example, the Supreme Court of New York County (Manhattan) has
a huge collection of massive bound volumes of naturalization records
performed by that court (a county court) - most of them after 1905.

After 1906 the court merely had to use forms specified by the Federal
government and to file a copy of the Petition for Naturalization with the
feds.

--
Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY


"Doug Cohen" <dmc@...> wrote

County courts did continue to grant naturalizations using Federal government
standard forms through 1924.

The US Citizenship & Immigration Service (USCIS) retains copies of all
naturalization records. These can be requested under the Freedom of
Information Act directly >from USCIS. These records were duplicate copies
and may at times be difficult to read, but they can help bring down that
brick wall.

Information on how to make an FOIA request to USCIS is located at their web
site:
http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/foia/request.htm

Hope this helps

Barbara Ellman
Secaucus, NJ USA

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:55:59 UTC, dmc@... (Doug Cohen)
opined:

After 1906, all naturalizations were in the federal district court. You
need to find the archives of the district court in Albany (nearest NARA
branch -- either Pittsfield or Varick St. in Manhattan, I would assume) and
ask them for the naturalization petition.

snip <

From: "Stan Goodman" <SPAM_FOILER@...>

This is very interesting to me. I had been led to believe that
naturalizations were done in county courts as well, even after 1906.
Is this my misunderstanding? I have sought the natuaralization of my
pgf in the records of the pertinent county courts (Essex and Hudson
counties, in NJ) without success; have I been barking up the wrong
tree? That's easy to do >from this distance.

My tentative conclusion had been that he was not, in fact naturalized,
although he was telling census enumerators >from 1910 that he was a
citizen.

snip <

Stan -

Doug's information about the location of the naturalization papers
is not correct. There is confusion here between NARA and
the INS. After 1906, the naturalizatons could still take place
in any court. What happened in 1906 is that the naturalization process
came under the jurisdiction of the US Federal government, so that
the policy and documentation would be standardized. A copy of the
paperwork was sent to the Bureau of Naturalization, which is now
the INS. Look at this website for more information
http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/history/natzrec/natrec.htm

If your grandfather was naturalized after 1906, you should follow the
instructions to request a freedom of information act request.

A person could still go to any court in order to apply for citizenship.
In fact, the writer of the original question said exactly that -

"Howie Axelrod" <highwind1@...> wrote

There is a certificate number, a Petition number, and volume number on
the document. It was issued Albany, Albany County, NY, in 1920.

In general, NARA does not have records that were created at the state &
local levels regardless of the time period. The exception to this statement
is that some states donated their state records to NARA. NARA would only
have the naturalization records for the Federal District or circuit courts
of the various states. These records would be located in the regional NARA
branch which holds the federal records pertaining to your state.

At the state level then, the records could be in any court, including the State
Supreme Court, or the local criminal court, or the county courts in states which
them. If you have actually searched the county court records in NJ, and didn't
find them, and you have searched at NARA, you probably need to go back
to New Jersey and see if there are other courts where these records could
be located. My great grand father was naturalized in RI at the state's
Supreme Court in 1901, and his sisters at the US District court in RI in 1931.

Sometimes the courts are not aware that naturalizations occured there, especially
if this is a service they no longer provide. You should check with a state or
county historical society to get a better idea of where these records might be.
In RI, they have a state judicial archive center which contains all the
naturalizations processed in their courts.

According to "They Became Americans", Loretto Dennis Szucs, the
NJ State archives has NJ naturalization records for the colonial period and
part of the 19th century. She also says most of the naturalization records from
1800's to the present are filed at each county clerk's office, and not the court.

I found this web address for the NJ state archives, but it seems to be out
of service at the moment - hopefully just a temporary glitch
http://www.njarchives.org/links/archives.html

Unfortunately, some of the older records >from the states' courts did not survive,
or will not provide much useful information even if you do find them.
There is always the possibility your ancestor was never naturalized....

I have never sent for a passport application, so I can't help with that.

My information is >from the above mentioned book, the NARA website,
and the INS info page.

Hope this helps you and others find something,
Lisa Lepore
llepore@...
Mendon, MA

Dear Cousins,

"After 1906, all naturalizations were in the federal district court..."

Although this is also stated on some web sites (and presumably in some
books, too), it is not entirely correct. Beginning September 26th, 1906,
with the creation of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service and
standardization of naturalization laws, federal courts were required to do
naturalizations, but other (e.g., state and county) courts were not
required to stop processing declarations of intention and petitions for
naturalization. Many of them did, to avoid the paperwork and regulatory
requirements, but the decision to stop was apparently made on a
court-by-court basis.

Ira
Ira Leviton
New York, N.Y.

RE: Certificate of Naturalization, etc.

Having found the 1st Papers (Intention), Petition for Citizenship, and final
Certificate -- all executed after 1910 -- in a County Clerk's Office in New
York State, I believe that certain Clerk's Offices are more diligent in
retaining their County Judges' records as well as sending it to the Federal
Agencies for repository. So that as late as 1926 my grandfather and father
each and severally received their certificates at a County venue. Maybe
smaller jurisdictions had at the time Less of a storage problem than the
larger municipal courts? Anyway, with patience and according respect to our
municipal keepers of records, papers get filed correctly, found and even
copies for our inquisitive genealogists.

Burt Hecht

<"Doug Cohen" dmc@... wrote:
:Subject: Re: Working Backwards >from Certificate of Naturalization
<Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 01:02:35 GMT
<After 1906, all naturalizations were in the federal district court.
<You need to find the archives of the district court in Albany (nearest NARA
<branch -- either Pittsfield or Varick St. in Manhattan, I would assume)
<and ask them for the naturalization petition. In the petition file, there will
<also be a certificate showing the ship on which he arrived. Many NARA
<branches have the ship manifests, whcih will show, among other things,
<nearest relative left behind in the old country. Both of these documents
<will be interesting to you!!"

Under the "New Law" copies of all naturalizations had to be sent to
Washington, DC and can be accessed >from the BCIS under the Freedom of
Information ACT (FOIA).

However, NOT all were handled by a federal district court. Such courts are
only available in certain select cities around the country. Many immigrants
were naturalized in state, county and circuit courts as well.

The naturalization file should include the Certificate of Arrival for any
immigrant who arrived after September 1906, although this requirement was
not strictly adhered to until several years later and may not appear in a
state or county court file. When requesting the file, one should always ask
for the complete naturalization file, not just the petition which was
the final paper. Some clerks may decide that is all you want and "forget"
to include the Declaration of Intent (first papers), certificate of
arrival, later record of a name change, etc.

RE Passenger lists: the question about the nearest relative in the old
country was not added until 1907 so do not expect to see it on earlier
lists, and if the shipping company was using up its old form supply,
maybe not until a year or two later.

Gladys
Gladys Friedman Paulin, CG
Winter Springs, FL

Editor "OnBoard the Newsletter of the Board for Certification of Genealogists"
CG, Certified Genealogist, is a Service Mark of the Board for Certification
of Genealogists and is used under license by Board-certified persons who
meet program standards and periodic rigorous evaluations.

The copies of the Petitions that were filed with the federal government are
*not* at NARA, they are still under the control of Citizenship and Immigration
Service (formerly Immigration and Naturalization Service). To access them
you need to make a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. You cannot
get personal, direct access.

What you find in various NARA Branch Archives (*not* in Washington) are mostly
records of Federal Courts that performed Naturalizations (i.e. the Petitions
and such that were filed in the courts' records, copies of which were sent
to Washington at the time they were created.) Since some naturalizations
were done by non-federal courts whose records were not deposited with NARA,
NARA Branches do not have records on All naturalizations. But what they do
have is usually indexed by surname and so reasonably easy to check, even
though they are organized first by court, and so not fully integrated.
Thosw indexes may also be available (they are on microfilm) through the
Mormons.

Peter Zavon

Penfield, NY

PZAVON@...


"Stan Goodman" <SPAM_FOILER@...> wrote

Dear Genners,

Howie Axelrod < highwind1@... > wrote:

I have in hane a copy of my Grandfather's "Certificate of

Naturalization".
I am attempting to find his Mother's maiden name, but it is not on
this document. I believe that the actual filing certificate and
associated paperwork would have this. Is this correct?
There is a certificate number, a Petition number, and volume number on
the document. It was issued Albany, Albany County, NY, in 1920.
What is easiet route to get the filing paperwork asssociated with
this?

** Albany County, NY has a naturalization index online. This is for
Albany County only. There is also a printable form to request information. The
website is:

http://www.albanycounty.com/departments/achor/naturalizationindexes.asp?id=856


Adelle Weintraub Gloger
Cleveland, Ohio
agloger@...

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:09:42 UTC, pzavon@... (Peter
Zavon) opined:

It is *not* correct to say that all naturalizations were performed in federal
court after 1906. Any court of record could perform naturalizations, and
many did. For example, the Supreme Court of New York County (Manhattan) has
a huge collection of massive bound volumes of naturalization records
performed by that court (a county court) - most of them after 1905.

After 1906 the court merely had to use forms specified by the Federal
government and to file a copy of the Petition for Naturalization with the
feds.

This is more like what I had understood. And the copies of the
Petitions are at NARA, so I could see them in Washington, once I can
define the date and court.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Stan -

Please see my earlier message - Peter's information is correct, but
your conclusion that the copies are at NARA is not correct. The copies
were filed with the Bureau of Naturalization which is now the INS, and
you can request them with a Freedom of Information Act request.

NARA only has the documents of naturalizations that were performed in
the Federal courts.

Lisa
Mendon, MA