ROTHSCHILD a name where and how ? #general


Judy
 

Hello >from Australia. I was born a ROTHSCHILD and have successfully
traced my family back many generations, with the help of others, through
Jewishgen. During my research I have found that the name sprung up in
many different areas before the famous ROTHSCHILD'S even thought of the
name. My ROTHSCHILD'S changed their name >from Levi due to a 'sign' on
the door (?) and that was in the early 1700's in and around the towns of
Stadtkyll, Junkerath, Kall, Koln (Cologne), so my questions is how did
the ROTHSCHILD name come about and what was on the red shield. There are
many others that changed their names to ROTHSCHILD during a certain
period and it seems to be around this time as well as into the late
1700's. The ROTHSCHILD archives are not so forthright with answers if
you do not appear on their data base. I have researched Jewish signs and
heraldry but only so far as to what is on the gravestones and what is
available in the Makor Library in Melbourne, Australia. So does anybody
have any ideas or suggestions as to what was on the red shield sign) and
isn't this before the time that surnames came about in Germany. Hoping
all is well in your parts of the world and thankyou all for future and
past information.
Judy Levron Melbourne Australia uran99@bigpond.com


Evertjan. <exjxw.hannivoort@...>
 

Judy wrote on 10 feb 2006 in soc.genealogy.jewish:
ROTHSCHILD
So does anybody
have any ideas or suggestions as to what was on the red shield sign)
In that time many people where analphabetic and the signs of cafes and
shops had to be visual. Itinerant painters were ordered to make a name into
a visual display.

A famous one was a London smitty, later inn, named "The Infante od
Castille" [baby Isabella, I believe, later wife of Ferdinand of Aragon]
which was vulgated to "Elephant and Castle", so the shield shows/showed an
Elephant and a Castle Keep.

I believe colours were also part of the visual image, so being the
establishment with a red sign hanging outside in the Frankfurter J├╝dengasse
had a good business appeal.

The best historical link I found here:

<http://www.rothschildarchive.org/ib/?doc=/ib/articles/data_faq_redshield>

--
Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)


Elsebeth P <jgsdk_ep@...>
 

At 01:20 10-02-2006, Judy wrote: ... snip...During my research I have found
that the name sprung up in many different areas before the famous
ROTHSCHILD'S even thought of the name. ... snip ... So does anybody have
any ideas or suggestions as to what was on the red shield sign) and isn't
this before the time that surnames came about in Germany.
Dear Judy,
I can tell you about the Danish ROTHSHILDs.
A man - his name is unkonwn! - who lived in Karge-Unruhstadt (which in the
sources are said to be located "where Brandenburg, Posen and Schlesien
meets") had at least 5 children (mentioned in a will).
One was Elias who immigrated to Denmark in 1773 together with his nephew
Israel (son of Leb/Loeb).
Elias settled in Maribo (on the island Lolland) in 1773 and Israel stayed
and worked with him until
1780, when Israel moved to Roskilde (a Danish town not far >from Copenhagen).
Elias was known as Elias MARIBO/MARIBOE and Israel was known as Israel
ROSKILDE/ROESKILDE but very soon the name was written ROTHSCHILD -
presumably because of Israel's German pronounciation!?
So we have had many ROTHSHILDs in Denmark (as well as MARIBOES), and
as far as I know none of them were related to the later famous ROTHSHILDs.
So there weren't any red shields in this story ...
Best regards

Elsebeth Paikin, President
Jewish Genealogical Society of Denmark:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgs-denmark/
&
SIG Coordinator and webmaster:
JewishGen's Scandinavia SIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/scandinavia/
mailto:elsebeth@paikin.dk


HPOLLINS@...
 

Rothschild was quite a common name and probably had nothing to do with red
shields.
For example, in the First World War three men named Rothschild served in the
Canadian army. One was a mail carrier (presumably postman), another was a
mail order manager, the third was a mining engineer. In the British army 14
men named Rothschild served, of whom six were members of the banking family.
The other 8 were presumably ordinary people.

Harold Pollins
Oxford


Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Judy Levron asked about the origin of the name
ROTHSCHILD. Elsebeth Paikin tells us how the Danish
families got their name [the town Roskilde] and Harold
Pollins has already pointed to the number of unrelated
ROTHSCHILD living in England in the period of WW1.
Indeed in 1851, there was a Polish-born watchmaker and
jeweller called Joseph ROTHSCHILD living Bristol, born
at the turn of the 1800s. By 1901, as well as the
famous English ROTHSCHILD clan, we have two immigrant
families in the poor East End who are cigar and
watchmakers.

You only have to look at Yad Vashem to see that
amongst the predominance of German ROTHSCHILD victims
there are very many others [over 1,000 tragic victims
are listed] and they are spread all over Europe.

I have located three families in Bohemia in 1793,
where two are definitely related. They live in the
Pilsner Kries [ie nr Pilsen] in small villages - one
is a butcher, one sells oddments and the third one
sells fabrics. So in Bohemia amidst about 6,000 family
heads, only three families have that name [the Prague
census is not yet available for checking]. These 2-3
poor rural Bohemian ROTHSCHILD most probably adopted
their family name after the Joseph II Toleranz Edict
of the 1780s. Perhaps they chose it spontaneously or
alternatively they were assigned it. There may have
been a local Schutzherr [Lord of the Manor] with a red
heraldic shield and they chose/were assigned the name
out of deference and/or to pinpoin their origins. This
route for the choice of names in Bohemia and Moravia
has precedents.

Thinking laterally, I have found BLAUSCHILD,
BRAUNSCHILD, GOLDSCHILD, GRUNSCHILD, and
SCHWARZSCHILD, as well, but ROTHSCHILD definitely
predominates. The question Judy posed could likewise
be posed about the other Colour+SCHILD names.

I have not found a GELBSCHILD, WEISSCHILD or
SILBERSCHILD yet. Their absence amongst the list of
names may also provide a clue.

Celia Male [U.K.]