Hi all,

I was fortunate to be able to find information about my greatgrandparents on
familysearch.org today. It's still lacking, but I've been so fortunate in
finding other family information that I'm going to post this and give it a try.

My great grandfather Abraham RICHTER was born in Austria. My father believes
he was >from Vienna. His father's name was Beril and his mother's name was
Male GOTTESMAN. He married Sadie WILDER in NYC on February 7, 1905. Sadie was
also born in Austria, but the site doesn't say what city or town and nobody in
my family seems to know. She had a sister Rose and another sister Tillie.
Her father's name is listed as Schulym Gezel, and her mother's name is listed
as Maly Bar..uhut.

I'm going to add these names on JGFF and I will post to the Austrian-Czech
list as well. If anyone has any ideas as to where else I might look, or if
anyone might even know something about any of these people/families, please feel
free to drop me a line.

I want to say that I am so pleasantly surprised that I have found so much
information so soon, and I am getting ready to get a family tree program to
enter in all this info, and to post or upload the results I have achieved thus
far.

Thank you,

Janette Levey Frisch

Janette Levey Frisch writes: <I fortunate to be able to find
information about my greatgrandparents on familysearch.org today.
It's still lacking, but I've been so fortunate in finding other
family information that I'm going to post this and give it a try.

My great grandfather Abraham RICHTER was born in Austria. My father
believes he was >from Vienna. His father's name was Beril and his
mother's name was Male GOTTESMAN. He married Sadie WILDER in NYC on
February 7, 1905. Sadie was also born in Austria, but the site
doesn't say what city or town and nobody in my family seems to know.
She had a sister Rose and another sister Tillie. Her father's name is
listed as Schulym Gezel, and her mother's name is listed
as Maly Bar..uhut.>

This is the perennial problem: Austria-Galicia [pre WW1] vs
Austria-Austria proper. I am absolutely certain the family came from
Galicia but Abraham RICHTER may indeed have been born in Vienna, as
many Galicians emigrated to this great metropolis.

It would have been useful if, at all possible, we had been given a
few more facts on this RICHTER family thought to be >from Vienna - ie
did Abraham's parents also go to the USA or did they also possibly
die in Vienna? How old was Abraham? I have guessed his dob >from the
given facts.

I have mentioned this before - the Vienna records are excellent and
the vital records of the Isr. Kultusgemeinde are now available from
the LDS - if Abraham was born in Vienna [say 1880?] his birth will be
clearly registered. If his parents died there - we should be able to
find their grave: This is one possibility - with a possible brother:

Zentralfriedhof Gate 1 19 7 59

RICHTER Bernhard aged 62 dob buried on 23.05.1892
RICHTER Deborah aged 70 buried on 06.06.1899
RICHTER Oswald aged 59 buried on 12.11.1918

BTW there were also many Galician GOTTESMAN living in Vienna. I have
studied a few of them. re BARE ..HUT this could be BARENHAUT or
BARENHUT see: http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/surnames/krakow.htm

And if you search for BARENHUT + Galicia on jri-pl you get a real
bonanza of records. And here is the jewel in the crown:

WILDER Salomon - Getzel 1894 M 78 999 Krakow Hersch - Leib Scheindel
SCHLOSSER
BERNHUT Malka 1894 M 78 999 Krakow Nathan Róza czyli Reizla SZWARTZ


But how could their daughter marry in 1905?

We apparently have gone a generation or two further back to Kracow
-but something is wrong with the data/dates!

Celia Male [U.K.]

Footnote: if you are interested in the Jews of Austria, Bohemia and
Moravia [now the Czech Republic] please see
http://www.jewishgen.org/austriaczech/

Galicia is not specifically dealt with by this SIG, but you may find
links through us and Viennese records.

MODERATOR NOTE: Galicia descendants will be interested in the
Gesher Galicia ("Bridge to Galicia") Special Interest Group at
http://www.jewishgen.org/Galicia/

Celia Male wrote:

"And if you search for BARENHUT + Galicia on jri-pl you get a real
bonanza of records. And here is the jewel in the crown:

WILDER Salomon - Getzel 1894 M 78 999 Krakow Hersch - Leib Scheindel
SCHLOSSER
BERNHUT Malka 1894 M 78 999 Krakow Nathan Róza czyli Reizla SZWARTZ"

You can find extensive family trees for these people on Dan Hirschberg's
wonderful Krakow website, using
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~dan/genealogy/Krakow/Families/Bernhaut.html#Malka as
a starting point. Presumably, the Sadie WILDER mentioned in Janette Levey
Frisch's original message is the Szeindel WILDER b. 10 May 1879 at
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~dan/genealogy/Krakow/Families/Schlosser.html#Sal .

Best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks
kleinwaks@...
near Washington, D.C.

In my previous posting I pinpointed this Krakow marriage for Janette:

WILDER Salomon - Getzel 1894 M 78 999 Krakow Hersch - Leib Scheindel
SCHLOSSER
BERNHUT Malka 1894 M 78 999 Krakow Nathan Roza czyli Reizla SZWARTZ

but commnted on the marriage of a daughter in 1905!

Thank you so much Logan [we have happily cooperated on Vienna-Galicia
research before] for linking my findings in the previous posting to
this Krakow family tree - the fit is perfect. We even have the sister
Rose, Janette told us about for Sadie [identified by Logan as
Szeindel WILDER, dob May 10,1879

Now it is all clear: the parents must have undergone a civic marriage
in 1894 - to legitimise the children with respect to prevailing
Austrian law before emigration; they probably married first in the
late 1860s with a religious ceremony:

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~dan/genealogy/Krakow/Families/Schlosser.html#Sal

| !x Salomon Getzel WILDER 1841 #321
| ! m:Malka BERNHUT 1839 #363
| ! | married 1894 #78
| ! |o Roza WILDER Aug 10, 1874 #486
| ! |x Natan WILDER Jan 6, 1877 #47
| ! |o Szeindel WILDER May 10, 1879 #346
| ! |x Eizyk WILDER Aug 25, 1881 #526 - Dec 13, 1884
#496
| ! |x Symche WILDER Apr 19, 1884 #263

Had the children moved to Vienna or asked for a travel document [for
the USA] without a civic marriage, they would have been issued
passports under the name Bernhut [their mother's maiden name].

How is it I can find other people's gtgtgrandparents' wedding [with
links to gtgtgtgrandparents!] but have yet to find my own paternal
grandparents' wedding in London in the late 1880s? Wish me luck.

Celia Male [U.K.]