Translation from Hebrew - two tombstones #general


Eliana Aizim
 

Dear Genners,
I would like to ask for a translation >from Hebrew of the inscriptions
on two tombstones that I´ve posted at ViewMate. File numbers are
VM8360 and VM8361 for the following address:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

You can go to the direct address:
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8360
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8361

Please respond privately to me: aizim@uol.com.br
Thanks very much.

Eliana AIZIM - >from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Visit my GUREVICH photo album:
http://www.geocities.com/elianaaizim/photo2.html

Researching:
AISEN, AIZEN, AISIN: Ukraine: Lugansk /Argentina / Brazil;
GUREVICH: Ukraine: Yuzovka / USA / Brazil: Rio;
VATNICK: Ukraine: Peschanka / Brazil: Rio;
WHITE > VATNICK: Canada: Toronto
AVERBUCH: Ukraine: Zhabokrich / Brazil: Colonia Quatro
Irmaos, Baron Hirsch / Rio de Janeiro.


Judith Romney Wegner
 

At 4:47 AM -0300 8/24/06, Eliana Aizim wrote:

Dear Genners,
I would like to ask for a translation >from Hebrew of the inscriptions
on two tombstones that I've posted at ViewMate. File numbers are
VM8360 and VM8361 for the following address:
Please respond privately to me: aizim@uol.com.br
Thanks very much.
Once again, these two stones have features that
are of general interest (and in one respect
rather puzzling) so I am bringing these to the
group's attention.

Eliana states that these two ladies were (1) her
greatgrandmother (who died on 18th Iyyar --
which is Lag Ba'Omer though the stone does not
say so -- of the year 5713/1953) and (2) her
grandmother's sister, in other words, Eliana's
great-aunt (who died on 1st of Adar Sheni
(i.e., Rosh Hodesh Adar Sheni) of the year 5719 =
1959)

The inscriptions on these two stones identify the
great-grandmother as Zlate bas Mosheh, "wife of
the late R Fishel Averbach" and the great-aunt
as Tovah "daughter of Fishel Averbach" and
"wife of the late Fishel Neuberger." (No doubt
the family took the unusual step of including the
men's surnames in order to avoid confusion. This,
by the way, is the first time I have seen the
term ha-manoaH ("the late...") on a stone. Is
this as rare as it strikes me -- or whether it
was customary in particular communities?

Both stones -- which incidentally have the
clearest inscriptions I've ever seen! -- spell
the surname AVERBACH, though Eliana gives the
spelling as AVERBUCH)

To me the most interesting -- and puzzling --
thing is that the great--grandmother Zlate is
described as "ishah kesherah" (literally a
"kosher" woman -- meaning a fitting or suitable
woman ) -- which strikes me as a rather odd
choice of adjective, while her great-aunt Tovah
is described more normally as "ishah yesharah"
(meaning "an upright woman").

I am wondering whether the adjective kesherah was
selected deliberately for the great-grandmother
-- or whether they had really intended to
describe her as ishah yesharah but they wrote
the yod very large -- which could have led the
stone-mason to misread it as a kaf and to carve
the adjective kesherah instead of the adjective
yesharah!

Can anyone shed light on why a family might
actually describe a deceased member as ishah
kesherah? Is it a technical term of some kind?

Judith Romney Wegner


Klausner
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Judith Romney Wegner" <jrw@brown.edu>
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Translation >from Hebrew - two tombstones

Can anyone shed light on why a family might> actually describe a deceased
member as ishah
kesherah? Is it a technical term of some kind?
** Please have a look at JOWBR inscriptions and translations: tens of
matzevot read Isha Kshera, along with other attributes, as Isha Hashuva,
Isha Kvuda etc. We usually translate Isha Kshera = a decent woman, just as
Isha Hashuva is translated: an esteemed woman (not an important woman).

"wife of the late Fishel Neuberger." (No doubt
the family took the unusual step of including the
men's surnames in order to avoid confusion. This,
by the way, is the first time I have seen the
term ha-manoaH ("the late...") on a stone. Is
this as rare as it strikes me -- or whether it
was customary in particular communities?
** Also found at JOWBR: the term "hamanoah" as well as the surname of the
deceased are used often.

Best wishes and shavua tov, Yocheved

Yocheved Klausner, Editor
Sharsheret Hadorot (bilingual: Hebrew and English)
Israel Genealogical Society (IGS)
yklaus@netvision.net.il

Visit our Website: www.isragen.org.il


Mathilde Tagger <tagger@...>
 

Hi Judith Romney Wegner,

You wrote:
To me the most interesting -- and puzzling -- thing is that the
great--grandmother Zlate is described as "ishah kesherah" (literally a
"kosher" woman -- meaning a fitting or suitable woman ) -- which strikes me
as a rather odd choice of adjective, while her great-aunt Tovah
is described more normally as "ishah yesharah" (meaning "an upright
woman").
I am wondering whether the adjective kesherah was selected deliberately for
the great-grandmother -- or whether they had really intended to
describe her as ishah yesharah but they wrote the yod very large -- which
could have led the stone-mason to misread it as a kaf and to carve
the adjective kesherah instead of the adjective yesharah!
Can anyone shed light on why a family might actually describe a deceased
member as ishah kesherah? Is it a technical term of some kind?
--------->
Checking the book Helkat Mehokek written by Asher Leib Brisk and containing
8,000 tombstone inscriptions >from Mont of Olives Cemetery in Jerusalem
(Years covered: 1740-1906), the tombstone inscriptions of women begin with
;
Isha = Woman
Isha Tsenu'a = Modest woman
Eshet Hayil = Woman of valor
Isha Hashuva = Esteemed woman
Isha Keshera= Upright woman
Isha Yekara= Cherished Woman
Isha Yera'at H' = Woman fearing G-d
Isha Kevuda = Respected woman
Marat = Mrs.
As you see, the adjectives used for describing the deceased woman are
numerous and, as far as I understand it, the choice of that adjective is
totally deliberate.
By the way, all these adjectives are only used by Ashkenazi Jews. The
Sephardic inscriptions of that period of time are more concise and usually
the word "marat" for Mrs. is only preceeding the given name of the deceased
woman.

The book Helkat Mehokek has been indexed as of the 16 projects conducted in
the frame of the 2004Jerusalem Conference by the Israel Genealogical
Society.
Go to: http://www.isragen.org.il/EIRI/surnames/index.html to check the
surnames you are looking for.

Thinking I have answered your question
Shalom,

Mathilde A.Tagger
Israel Genealogical Society
Jerusalem


Judith Romney Wegner
 

At 8:53 PM +0200 8/26/06, Klausner wrote (in answer to my question):
Can anyone shed light on why a family might> actually describe a
deceased member as ishah
kesherah? Is it a technical term of some kind?
Yocheved replied

** Please have a look at JOWBR inscriptions and translations: tens
of matzevot read Isha Kshera, along with other attributes, as Isha
Hashuva, Isha Kvuda etc. We usually translate Isha Kshera = a decent
woman, just as Isha Hashuva is translated: an esteemed woman (not
an important woman).
Dear Yocheved,

Many thanks for verifying that kesherah is an adjective quite
commonly used to describe a deceased woman. Thanks also to Mathilde
Tagger for the information she supplied.

Since the word kasher literally means "fitting" or "suitable," does
it use imply specifically that the departed woman had conducted
herself "in a fitting/ seemly manner"?

Also, do we find the adjective kasher used with equal frequency to
described a deceased man? If the answer is yes -- end of story.
But if the answer turns out to be no, I would wonder about the
sociological significance of gender distinctions in adjectives used
on tombstones to describe the departed. If it was especially
praiseworthy for a woman (as opposed to a man) to conduct herself in
a "fitting" or "seemly" manner, would this imply that she behaved
modestly or unobtrusively -- in other words, that she "kept her
place" in traditional Jewish culture?

I went to the JOWBR site as advised , but --probably due to my being
electronically challenged -- I could not figure out how to locate
lists of adjectives used on stones. Perhaps Yocheved or Mathilde
could tell us whether the adjectives found on men's stones are
similar to or different >from the those found for women I would
particularly like to know whether men are described as " ish kasher"
as often as is the case for women.

Judith Romney Wegner


Talila Stan
 

Eliana Aizim aizim@uol.com.br >from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
wrote:
I would like to ask for a translation >from Hebrew of
the inscriptions on two tombstones that I´ve posted at ViewMate.

http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8360
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8361


Here is the translation >from Hebrew - two tombstones

A KOSHER WOMAN
ZLATE daughter of R' MOSHE
wife of the deceased FISHEL AWERBACH
BORN TAF RESH LAMED GIMEL
DIED 18 IYAR TAF SHIN YUD GIMEL (about 1953)
LET HER SOUL BE IN THE PLACE OF LIFE


A HONEST WOMAN
TOVA daughter of R' FISHEL
(AWERBACH)
Wife of the deceased R' FISHEL NEYBERGER
DIED 1 ADAR BET TAF SHIN YUD TET (about 1959)
LET HER SOUL BE IN THE PLACE OF LIFE


I hope it helps.
Best wishes,
Talila