ASHKANASE fabric - a summing up? #general


Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Do you remember when barely a week ago Hyla Fox sent in a posting about an old
textile? <Worked into the fabric on the bottom is one word: Ashkanase. (That
was exactly how it was spelled.)>

I have followed the thread with great care and am amazed how it tangled it has
become!

No one entering the General Discussion Group now and reading the postings about
- the Judeo-German and yiddish for wife and horse; pharaoh's birthday
celebrations; the possible relationship between the father of the atomic bomb
and the famous OPPENHEIMER Hof Jude in Vienna; toponymics; Glueckel of Hameln
and whether she was of/in or >from Hameln and whether she would remember the
birthdays of her many children; a dictionary of criminal jargon compiled by the
police chief of Berlin in the 19th Century - would realise that all this began
with a covering for a loaf of chollah which by now has gone *completely stale*.

We all agreed that the variously spelled/named ASCHKENAZY [should I use a Y or
an I as an ending?] were Ashkenazi Jews who somehow got this name - where or
when remains in some doubt. Nothing is proven except that the name was already
established very early in Bohemia and Moravia, Poland and in Constantinople
[see below].

re Vienna, the 30 plus variant names I listed were >from 1930s telephone
directories, holocaust records and asset files I have studied - so there was a
total misunderstanding when we received a posting refuting this and telling us
about the very few early Hof and Tolerierte Juden of the mass migration of Jews
into Vienna >from 1848 onwards. Unless one specifically talks about the select
group of Tolerierte Juden in Vienna, one generally refers to the huge
population of about 200,000 Jews >from 1848 onwards.

Now we come to the Eshkenazi and variants. I have received a number of replies
telling me of encounters with and personal knowledge of Sephardic or Mizrahi
Jews named ESKENAZI ICHKINAZI ESQUINAZI [the latter in Peru, Mexico, Cuba],
Schinazi and variants.

Reading the lecture on Jewish surnames that Albert HYAMS delivered to the North
London Literary and Social Union sometime in 1907, I came across these two
interesting snippets [probably long since forgotten by nearly everyone] to add
to my headful of useless or useful facts:

1. ALAMAN and ALEMAN still flourish {as family names} in the Turkish dominion
[1907].

So could these be the ASCHKENAZI, TEDESKO, TEDESCHI in another guise?

2. The various synagogues at Constantinople also gave distinguishing names to
the descendants of some of their members: ASHKENAZKY and ROMANOs [Jews of the
Empire].

[btw plenty of ROMANO in Alexandria too]! Did these Synagogue members then
intermarry with the local Sephardic girls? I suspect they did and and in the
process kept their name but lost their Ashkenazi "roots". This happened in
Alexandria all the time eg: families called ROSENBERG, POLLAK and WEINSTEIN
were Sephardic and French-speaking!

So back to the Jews of Constantinople. The Jewish Encyclopedia has an
interesting but necessarily brief summary in which we read: a physician named
Solomon ben Nathan ASHKENAZI, a native of Poland, held, about 1580, the office
of {Turkish} ambassador at Venice. The article cites numerous other ASHKENAZI
of prominence in Constantinople. They were already there very early as we now
know:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=746&letter=C

Conclusion: following the thread might be boring. It makes life easier for
someone seeking an answer to a straight question, but perhaps it is not as much
fun for those who like to improvise and digress.

Celia Male [U.K.]