In a message dated 10/26/2009 9:18:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
a1steve@... writes:
Would this warrant a person saying they were from
Germany and not >from 'Russia' for example.



Kurlanders considered themselves German and most of them left the area
around the 1890s due to the Russians as I understand it. My own family always
called themselves German and were said to be very Germanic in their nature
although they came >from Talsen, which is north west of Riga. Almost all
of them left the area between 1890 and 1892. All their historical documents

from the USA rarely or almost never say anything about Russia.

Allan Jordan

In a message dated 10/27/2009 12:45:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
erbush@... writes:
The interesting thing is,
both of her parents and her older siblings were born in Plunge,
Lithuania, where the REST family had reportedly lived since the mid
1600s or early 1700s.


I don't think it is entirely uncommon to find Kurlanders of German
background coming >from Lithuania. Has anyone else found traces of their roots
coming via Lithuania? One of my branches in Kurland comes via Lithuania while
the others I cane get back into the 1700s in Pilten or Kurland before the
trail stops.

Has anyone worked on the history to see if the German origins got into
Lithuania and why/when some of them migrated north into Kurland? I assume
maybe the Kurlanders were a bit more tolerant at some point of the German
Jews? My branch went >from Lithuania to the Talsen area in the mid-1800s.

Thanks

Allan Jordan

Dear All

Thank you to the many that have replied to me privately. I understand that some
people have responded directly to this list. Unfortunately, there seems to be a
glitch, and I've not received posts for two days. Hopefully I'll be able to respond
soon.

Many thanks
Naomi Ogin
Brisbane

a1steve@... wrote:

Would this warrant a person saying they were from
Germany and not >from 'Russia' for example.

My own great-grandfather, Joseph Bernard FRIEDMAN, is recorded in different
US censuses as being >from Kurland, Poland, Germany, and Russia. I can make
some sense of that, since that territory was part of different countries at
different times. But sometimes I wonder if it was just a matter of having a
vague recollection of the geography of "the old country". (My ggfather came
to the US in the 1850s.)

My point is that the name of the country might be reported in various ways,
and you will probably never know for sure what the reasons are. But if you
know the town he was from, you have what you really need.

George Friedman
Champaign, IL

I remember as a child growing up in Los Angeles, my grandmother Sophie
(a very stoic woman) was always so adament that they were "German"
presumably because she and her older siblings were born in Riga or
Libau ("Kurland" or "Germany") on the US census). I remember the
phrase "high German" being tossed about. The interesting thing is,
both of her parents and her older siblings were born in Plunge,
Lithuania, where the REST family had reportedly lived since the mid
1600s or early 1700s. They did not move to Riga until 1882 or
thereabouts.

Elaine Bush
Pleasant Hill, CA USA
MODERATOR NOTE: Please continue privately.

Researching: REST, PAS, BASSMAN, BER, KIRSNER, KATZ, KURZON (Plunge,
Kretinga, Luoke, Riga, Liepaja, SAfrica, Argentina) ; BLUSHINSKY
(Moletai, Nemincine, Shirvintz, Postavy); SHANIN / SHEININ, FRUMOV
(Ukraine, Belarus)
erbush@...
http://elainebush.tribalpages.com

Dear Genners,

a part of my maternal ancestors (family of the Councillor of State and Knight
Dr. med. Philipp ben Isaak KEILMANN, son of the forwarding agent/carrier Isaak
ben Feibus KEILMANN and Jette HINDE, nee COHN) were living in Riga. The Kurlaender
were all fealing as Germans, they all spokes german language (speciall
german-baltic dialect) and they were Maskilim (members of the Haskala). My
great-greatgrandfather Philipp, as a member of the Riga Kahal and Officials for
Jewish Affairs by the Russian Gouverneur General Priince Paul BAGRATION was
fighting against the dominance of the russian speaking Jewish Community in Riga,
specially against the Rabbi PUPINJANSKY, who wanted the dominance of the russian
language. The Courlaender were all feeling as German, mostly comming in the 17th
century >from the Great Dutchy of Polish-Lithuania.

B'Shalom

Robert Dupuis, Berlin, Germany
MODERATOR NOTE: Please continue privately.