Ashkenazic naming pattern question #general


Nicolas Trokiner <trokiner@...>
 

Hello,

According to his marriage record, one of my ancestors >from Mogielnica (Poland)
was named Chaim Josek. His father was Josek Lejb (confirmed in another record).
Have you ever seen such a naming pattern among Ashkenazim where one of the
father's names is repeated in son's?

Of course it may be a mistake... The third solution is that Josek Lejb died
before his son was born?

Thank you for your ideas or experiences.

Nicolas Trokiner
Paris- France


David Colman <davidcolman@...>
 

Nicolas Trokiner wrote: "According to his marriage record, one of my
ancestors >from Mogielnica (Poland) was named Chaim Josek. His father was
Josek Lejb"

In my own family's 19th century records, I have found it to be very common in
the Polish records to see the use of a pseudo-patronyimic in just this way.
In other words, Chaim son of Josek son of Lejb could very well appear as
Chaim Josek son of Josek Lejb - even though the proper Polish patronymic
usage should be Chaim Joskowicz. That said, it could also be that the
father's true name was Josek Lejb and Chaim was recorded as Chaim Josek.

David Colman
Toronto, Canada


tom
 

If I'm not mistaken, in some places and times, the authorities recorded
Jewish patronymic names without including "ben". In this case, it might be
that the groom's Jewish name was Chaim ben Josek, and his father was Josek
ben Leijb?

I doubt that he was named after his father, or his name would have been Josek
Lejb. (my great grandfather was named Arukh ben Barukh, for example.)

Tom Klein, Toronto

"Nicolas Trokiner" <trokiner@...> wrote:

According to his marriage record, one of my ancestors >from Mogielnica (Poland)
was named Chaim Josek. His father was Josek Lejb (confirmed in another record).
Have you ever seen such a naming pattern among Ashkenazim where one of the
father's names is repeated in son's?


Harold Lewin
 

The omission of the bar or bat of the patronymic and the adoption of the
father's given name as the civil family name of the son or daughter was common
practise among German Jews. I have seen many Jewish BMD records of persons
originating >from Germany in London synagogue registers that follow this custom,
particularly those >from late 18th and early to mid 19th century.

Harold Lewin - Jerusalem


Nicolas Trokiner <trokiner@...>
 

Hello,
I received many valuable information about my question. The conclusion is that
having a son called Chaim Josek and a father called Josek Lejb is not contrary
to the Ashkenazic naming pattern because these are different names. But most of
all, it seems like the 2nd part of the name is precisely there to remind the
father's name, with the omission of "Ben" or "_owicz".

Thank you again (I think I personally thanked every contributor).

Nicolas Trokiner
Paris-France