Origin of FREEDMAN name #general


Elizabeth Scofield
 

My ggrandfather Lipman NEINKEN emigrated >from Latvia in 1892 to the
US. His Brooklyn, NY, death certificate lists his mother's (maiden)
name as Rebecca Freedman, born in Russia. FREEDMAN does not appear to
be Latvian in origin. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thank you.

Liz Scofield
Bethlehem, PA


Roger Lustig
 

Not only was Riga in the Russian Empire, but it was a German-speaking
town. Not that FRIEDMAN (or similar spelling) couldn't come >from
Yiddish--and it was also a given name among both Jews and
German-speaking Gentiles.

Beider's book on Russian-Jewish surnames lists many places where Jews
with that surname lived. First one on the list is Riga.

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ USA

On 2/15/2015 5:35 AM, news@google.com news@google.com wrote:
Liz Scofield wrote:

My ggrandfather Lipman NEINKEN emigrated >from Latvia in 1892 to the
US. His Brooklyn, NY, death certificate lists his mother's (maiden)
name as Rebecca Freedman, born in Russia. FREEDMAN does not appear to
be Latvian in origin. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Liz,

When your ggfather was borh in Riga it was part of Russia, hence
family didn't acquire Latvian name.

BTW, name is German.
Calgary, AB

Alexander Sharon


Mark Jacobson
 

David is spreading another of those 'names changed at Ellis Island'
stories, this time for England. Like the US, passengers arrived in
England with their names and information already on manifests
created at the port of departure using tickets, passports and other
travel documents. Arrival ports had people who spoke a variety of
languages to assist immigrants. Immigrants did not make up names on
the spot that became their legal names forever or have names
assigned by officials at the port of arrival.

Mark Jacobson
Past President, JGSPBCI

Boca Raton, FL
DOGULOV/DOVGALEVSKY - Belaya Tserkov/Kiev Ukraine;
COHEN/KANA/KAHAN - Tripolye, Ukraine;
JACOBSON - Polotsk/Lepel, Belarus; KOBLENTZ - Polotsk, Belarus;
KAMERMAN/KAMMERMANN, WEGNER - Drohobycz, Galicia;
KOPPEL - Stebnik/Drohobycz, Galicia;
JACOBI - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia; ROTHLEIN - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia;

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Nathan d.nathan1@ntlworld.com"
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 8:33 AM

Hi Liz,

This may or may not help, but my father-in-law told us the story of how he
believes that his family got their surname of Freedman. Whenever his father
(my grandfather-in-law) was asked by his children where they came from, he
refused to say anything. When they arrived in England around 1905 >from
somewhere in Eastern Europe, he could not speak any English, so was he
was taught a phrase by a fellow immigrant to say: "I am a freed man >from
Russia." when asked for his name by an immigration officer. To that officer
responded: "Welcome to England Mr Freedman. But he would never disclose
whereabouts the family came from. All he would say was: "New name, new
country, new life!" Thus any investigations by myself and other members of
my wife's family are totally stymied.


Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 

That story has as much basis in truth as the "Ellis Island myth."

We, as genealogists, should do everything possible to make sure we
don't promulgate the myths that immigration officers changed names.

British researchers have written, "In a nutshell: your surname was
not changed by the immigration officer. Your immigrant ancestor
changed it himself, to blend in." and "People that came to the UK
were not registered and they could call themselves what they wanted."

As to why they used a "Germanic" name -- Yiddish was the lingua
franca of the shtetls, no matter in which eastern European country
they were. Yiddish is a Germanic based language.

Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, AZ

On Feb 15, 2015, at 6:33 AM, David Nathan d.nathan1@ntlworld.com
wrote:
This may or may not help, but my father-in-law told us the story of
how he believes that his family got their surname of Freedman...


Alexander Sharon
 

Liz Scofield wrote:

My ggrandfather Lipman NEINKEN emigrated >from Latvia in 1892 to the
US. His Brooklyn, NY, death certificate lists his mother's (maiden)
name as Rebecca Freedman, born in Russia. FREEDMAN does not appear to
be Latvian in origin. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Liz,

When your ggfather was borh in Riga it was part of Russia, hence
family didn't acquire Latvian name.

BTW, name is German.
Calgary, AB

Alexander Sharon


David Nathan <d.nathan1@...>
 

Hi Liz,

This may or may not help, but my father-in-law told us the story of how he
believes that his family got their surname of Freedman. Whenever his father
(my grandfather-in-law) was asked by his children where they came from, he
refused to say anything. When they arrived in England around 1905 >from
somewhere in Eastern Europe, he could not speak any English, so was he
was taught a phrase by a fellow immigrant to say: "I am a freed man >from
Russia." when asked for his name by an immigration officer. To that officer
responded: "Welcome to England Mr Freedman. But he would never disclose
whereabouts the family came from. All he would say was: "New name, new
country, new life!" Thus any investigations by myself and other members of
my wife's family are totally stymied.

David Nathan, London, UK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Liz Scofield elizabethmscofield@gmail.com"
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 11:55 PM

My ggrandfather Lipman NEINKEN emigrated >from Latvia in 1892 to the
US. His Brooklyn, NY, death certificate lists his mother's (maiden)
name as Rebecca Freedman, born in Russia. FREEDMAN does not appear to
be Latvian in origin. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


tom
 

I totally agree with this message, and all about the bubbe mayses
about "name changes at Ellis Island", etc., but I would like to add
my very small footnote: name changes did occur when immigrating to
"the new country".

No, they were not imposed by immigration officials, or the result of
some language barriers (see the story of "Sean Fergusen" in the list
archives), but... there were at least 2 different, and probably
historically accurate, reasons to change names.

The first was to escape. Leaving under an assumed name made it more
difficult for the czarist police to cross-reference, and catch,
people who were fleeing. And passports in those days didn't have
biometric data, and sophisticated tamper-proofing. Whether the
police >from the old country were all-powerful and all-knowing, or
not, we do know >from anecdotal evidence that many immigrants seemed
to believe that they were, and tried to cover their tracks, even long
after they were safely settled in their new land.

And the second was that sometimes their papers weren't entirely
"kosher". Even today, airline tickets are not transferrable, and
people who cannot travel, stand to lose a good deal of money. I
believe that at least some people travelled on tickets that were
originally purchased for someone else, or on passports that didn't
exactly match their real identity. That (mis)information may have,
originally, been to save money, but the name on the ticket became the
name on the manifest, and then the immigration record, and the
naturalization petition, etc. If it also happened to be the name of
the cousins they were living with at the time, so much the better.

....... tom klein, toronto

Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@comcast.net> wrote:

That story has as much basis in truth as the "Ellis Island myth."

We, as genealogists, should do everything possible to make sure we
don't promulgate the myths that immigration officers changed names.

British researchers have written, "In a nutshell: your surname was
not changed by the immigration officer. Your immigrant ancestor
changed it himself, to blend in." and "People that came to the UK
were not registered and they could call themselves what they wanted."


Roberta Sheps
 

My maternal grand-mother's brother changed his name >from Belovitski to
Freedman after he emigrated to North America. I suspect that's what
happened with your family too.

Roberta Sheps
Colchester, England

-----Original Message-----
From: Liz Scofield elizabethmscofield@gmail.com
Sent: 14 February 2015 23:56

My ggrandfather Lipman NEINKEN emigrated >from Latvia in 1892 to the
US. His Brooklyn, NY, death certificate lists his mother's (maiden)
name as Rebecca Freedman, born in Russia. FREEDMAN does not appear to
be Latvian in origin. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


Martin Davis (com)
 

Liz Schofield wrote: My ggrandfather Lipman NEINKEN emigrated >from Latvia in
1892 to the US. His Brooklyn, NY, death certificate lists his mother's
(maiden) name as Rebecca Freedman, born in Russia. FREEDMAN does not appear
to be Latvian in origin. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Freedman, in its original German form of Friedmann, and it's related names,
were reasonably common Jewish family name in Latvia. The 'Latvian Jewish
Names Project' (http://names.lu.lv/en.html) lists families named Freid,
Friedemann, Friedmann, Friedenstein, Friedland, Friedlander etc., as Shoah
victims. Additionally, the majority of Jewish family names listed are of
German/Prussian origin. This partly denotes their earlier country of origin
and continuing cultural affinity as, "The Jewish community reestablished
itself in the 18th century, mainly through an influx >from Prussia...."
(Wiki).

Martin Davis
London (UK)


tom.venetia@...
 

According to Rabbi Benzion Kaganoff, in his famous book about the History of
Names, FREEDMAN or FRIEDMAN are patronyms, that is derived >from the father's
Hebrew name. They replaced Shelomo (Solomon = peaceful) or Shalom (= peace).
The explanation given is that in several European countries it was forbidden
to assume Hebrew names as family names. Since they sound German they were
acceptable to the authorities.
I found this same explanation, somewhat more elaborate, at the
Selectsurnames2 website.
Tom Venetianer
Sao Paulo - Brazil