question re ships #general


Jules Levin
 

Thanks to JewishGen and its wonderful members, I have learned that my
greatgrandfather's family left Hamburg on Oct 9, 1891, traveling on the
Normannia cabin class, bound for New York.
1. At that time, when would they have arrived in New York, and at where?

2. "Cabin-class" was on the Hamburg boarding manifest, but the specs
for the Normannia list 3 classes. Would cabin class have been 1st or
2nd class? The oldest child was 19, and my last surviving uncle of the
next generation told me that that uncle used to brag "we came first
class!". But when I am upgraded to business class I think I am in
first, so who knows?

3. The family traveled by ship to Hamburg >from Kronshtadt, and the
existing Hamburg manifest seems to be garbled when transposed >from
Cyrillic (?) into German. Thus the ggf, M. Feivesovitz, appears as
Feibel Horwiz, this error kept as Horwiz in remaining 6 family members.
But there can be no doubt this is the right family, all 7 first names,
ages, etc. are correct. My question is, would there be a manifest in
New York extant? The surname Horwitz is unknown in the family, and the
first mention of the family is a business listing for M. Faivasovitz in
Chicago in 1893.

Thanks for any further information.
Jules Levin
Los Angeles


A. E. Jordan
 

<< Thanks to JewishGen and its wonderful members, I have learned that my
greatgrandfather's family left Hamburg on Oct 9, 1891, traveling on the
Normannia cabin class, bound for New York.
1. At that time, when would they have arrived in New York, and at where?>>

The ship arrived in New York on October 18, 1891 -- but the passenger list appears
in Ancestry the following day October 19th. October 18th was a Sunday so maybe
that accounts for the difference in dates? Ships said they were going to New York
but that more meant New York harbor versus the confines of the City as we know it.
Each shipping line rented its own docks and some were in Manhattan on the Hudson
River, some were in Brooklyn and some in Hoboken. I am generalizing and not
checking your specific arrival but the line was HAPAG or Hamburg America and they
used piers in Hoboken. A ship would have first anchored at Quarantine in the
lower harbor and once it was cleared it would proceed into the harbor. Depending
on the years the immigrants were either off loaded in the Lower Harbor and moved
to Ellis Island or the Barge Office or stayed on the ship till it docked and the
immigrants in steerage were then put on a ferry back down the harbor to the
immigration station. I have been told that this only happened for steerage and
the other classes were processed on the ship and not subjected to Ellis Island.

<<2. "Cabin-class" was on the Hamburg boarding manifest, but the specs
for the Normannia list 3 classes. Would cabin class have been 1st or 2nd class?>>

The ship was built to hold three classes of passengers: First, Second and Third.
The passenger list for the NY arrival distinguishes between Cabin and Steerage.
Steerage would have been in dormitories whereas the high grades had more private
accommodations. So yes it was an achievement for the family to come in a cabin and
not the dormitories. Also I believe the Cabin passengers were processed on the
ship and not sent to the barge office or Ellis Island. In the 20th century First,
Cabin and Tourist became the vernacular for the shipboard classes but in the 1890s
those same distinctions did not exist.

<<3. .... My question is, would there be a manifest in New York extant?>>

Yes there is a New York list. Brose the files as opposed to doing a name search
and go to NY Passenger Lists on Ancestry. On the right of the search page there
is a way to specify date (October 19, 1891 for this) and then you see the name of
the ships and click it and it will take you to the first page of that list. In
this case the cabin names are the last few pages of the list and you can sit there
and read them all to see if your family is there. The total list is about 22 pages
and only 5 or so are Cabin -- but read them all to see if the family was truly
cabin passengers.

Hope this information is helpful

Allan Jordan


Susan&David
 

Normannia arrived in New York 19 October 1891. The manifest is on ancestry.com

Your passengers may be indexed as Hatuschewitz

David Rosen
Boston, MA

Jules F Levin ameliede@earthlink.net wrote:

Thanks to JewishGen and its wonderful members, I have learned that my
greatgrandfather's family left Hamburg on Oct 9, 1891, traveling on
the Normannia cabin class, bound for New York.
3. The family traveled by ship to Hamburg >from Kronshtadt, and the
existing Hamburg manifest seems to be garbled when transposed >from
Cyrillic (?) into German.