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Abraham OSMAN from Lodz to Glasgow, Scotland, UK and his wife Fanny nee BARULA #general
David Ziants
It has been many years since I posted to this group - primarily due to
heavy work commitments that I have.
A specific great-great-uncle has taken my interest - having made recent
email contact with a distant cousin who is a descendant of one of his
sisters.
We are talking about descendents of my great-great-grandfather Yitschak
ISHMA or ISHMACH or ISMACH. (According to civil records I recently
examined his given name was Israel).
The family migrated >from Lodz, Poland at the beginning of 20th century,
and he changed the name to DAVIDSON in England, UK.
The name of this great-great-uncle was Abraham and I give here a list of
his siblings:-
- Lilian (married a DUBOFF) - who ended up in Canada
- Abraham - changed name to OSMAN - >from Lodz to Glasgow, Scotland, UK
married to Fanny nee BARULA
- Alter - my great-grandfather who came to London and changed family
name to DAVIDSON . He was married to Esther nee FRIEDMAN >from Narewka.
- Dina (married a FREEDMAN - but nothing to do with Alter's wife who was
also a FRIEDMAN) who also came to London
There is a lot to say about my family - and the Jewishgen archives can
be searched to see my postings - some of a general nature and some where
I talk and ask about my family.
In this posting, I want to concentrate on Abraham.
>from a genealogical point of view, the advantage of him migrating to
Glasgow is that it was (and still is) a relative small community. So it
is easier to search the names.
My problem is that my (paternal) grandfather when he was alive claimed
that Abraham married out to a non-Jewish green-grocer.
Using:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&404
for general searches
and
http://glasgowhebrewburialsociety.org/
for searching Jewish burial grounds;
I found out that:-
1) A Jewish (I assume orthodox) minister led their wedding - as he went
out of his way to register in the civil registry it for the couple as a
Jewish wedding. The wedding took place in a hall and not in a shul
[=synagogue] - which was very unusual in the UK in those days (although
perfectly OK according to Jewish law).
2) Fannie (as well as Abraham) are buried in the orthodox Jewish
cemetery. Neither grave-stones have their Hebrew names on them. Possibly
this was to do with the ignorance of the children - but there could also
be other reasons.
3) Fanny's maiden name, BARULA, appears as the deceased on quite a few
stones on the cemetery. I assume that this was all her family. Her
father, Yosseph ben Dov, has a very respectable stone.
4) Fannie's mother's maiden name was YAFFIE, and there are quite a few
people with that family name also buried there, including what seems to
be her siblings.
On the other hand:-
5) The given name of Fannie's mother on the civil records was
"Christina" - what seems to be to me a far >from Jewish name.
6) I could not find Fannie's mother's grave in any of the cemeteries
there. Maybe she had a Hebrew or Yiddish name that if I knew what it
was, I would know her grave.
I concentrated on the maternal links here because according to orthodox
jewish law, that is what determines if the person is Jewish or not.
Are there any descendents of my Abraham and Fannie OSMAN, Fannie's
family BARULA, and YAFEE out there who might know a bit on this?
Are there any Glasgow people out there who might have known of these
families , etc?
(I found a newspaper announcement that indicated that Joseph sold
wholesale cloths and not just {green}-grocery.)
Thank you in advance,
David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel
dziants@...
Researching families: ZIANTS, ZENETSKI, DAVIDSON, ISHMA, ISMACH, OSMAN,
FRIEDMAN. (>from Narewka, Lodz, Lomza in Poland)
GABLE, GEWELBER, REINER, MICHAELS (England)
heavy work commitments that I have.
A specific great-great-uncle has taken my interest - having made recent
email contact with a distant cousin who is a descendant of one of his
sisters.
We are talking about descendents of my great-great-grandfather Yitschak
ISHMA or ISHMACH or ISMACH. (According to civil records I recently
examined his given name was Israel).
The family migrated >from Lodz, Poland at the beginning of 20th century,
and he changed the name to DAVIDSON in England, UK.
The name of this great-great-uncle was Abraham and I give here a list of
his siblings:-
- Lilian (married a DUBOFF) - who ended up in Canada
- Abraham - changed name to OSMAN - >from Lodz to Glasgow, Scotland, UK
married to Fanny nee BARULA
- Alter - my great-grandfather who came to London and changed family
name to DAVIDSON . He was married to Esther nee FRIEDMAN >from Narewka.
- Dina (married a FREEDMAN - but nothing to do with Alter's wife who was
also a FRIEDMAN) who also came to London
There is a lot to say about my family - and the Jewishgen archives can
be searched to see my postings - some of a general nature and some where
I talk and ask about my family.
In this posting, I want to concentrate on Abraham.
>from a genealogical point of view, the advantage of him migrating to
Glasgow is that it was (and still is) a relative small community. So it
is easier to search the names.
My problem is that my (paternal) grandfather when he was alive claimed
that Abraham married out to a non-Jewish green-grocer.
Using:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&404
for general searches
and
http://glasgowhebrewburialsociety.org/
for searching Jewish burial grounds;
I found out that:-
1) A Jewish (I assume orthodox) minister led their wedding - as he went
out of his way to register in the civil registry it for the couple as a
Jewish wedding. The wedding took place in a hall and not in a shul
[=synagogue] - which was very unusual in the UK in those days (although
perfectly OK according to Jewish law).
2) Fannie (as well as Abraham) are buried in the orthodox Jewish
cemetery. Neither grave-stones have their Hebrew names on them. Possibly
this was to do with the ignorance of the children - but there could also
be other reasons.
3) Fanny's maiden name, BARULA, appears as the deceased on quite a few
stones on the cemetery. I assume that this was all her family. Her
father, Yosseph ben Dov, has a very respectable stone.
4) Fannie's mother's maiden name was YAFFIE, and there are quite a few
people with that family name also buried there, including what seems to
be her siblings.
On the other hand:-
5) The given name of Fannie's mother on the civil records was
"Christina" - what seems to be to me a far >from Jewish name.
6) I could not find Fannie's mother's grave in any of the cemeteries
there. Maybe she had a Hebrew or Yiddish name that if I knew what it
was, I would know her grave.
I concentrated on the maternal links here because according to orthodox
jewish law, that is what determines if the person is Jewish or not.
Are there any descendents of my Abraham and Fannie OSMAN, Fannie's
family BARULA, and YAFEE out there who might know a bit on this?
Are there any Glasgow people out there who might have known of these
families , etc?
(I found a newspaper announcement that indicated that Joseph sold
wholesale cloths and not just {green}-grocery.)
Thank you in advance,
David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel
dziants@...
Researching families: ZIANTS, ZENETSKI, DAVIDSON, ISHMA, ISMACH, OSMAN,
FRIEDMAN. (>from Narewka, Lodz, Lomza in Poland)
GABLE, GEWELBER, REINER, MICHAELS (England)
David Ziants
After my posting yesterday about my great-great-uncle Abraham OSMAN who
migrated to Glasgow, Scotland,UK at beginning of 20th century and
married Fanny nee BARULA, I now had the great idea of trying to find out
the Jewish name of his mother-in-law by correlating the family name and
date on the civil record and searching the gravestones with same family
name.
The mother-in-law's name on the civil record was Christina BARULA (nee
YAFFIE). Doing this, I have now found out that her Jewish name was
Tzeipa. It is written on the gravestone in English characters but no
name in Hebrew. Also Abraham and Fannie do not have on their stones the
names in Hebrew characters in the usual fashion.
Tzeipa BARULA did have her Hebrew name in Hebrew characters but the
given name is worn away and not legible. All that is left is "bat reb
Avraham".
So there were three graves that came up on the Glasgow Burial Societies
web-site when using "advanced search" on name BARULA. (Family name of
Joseph, father of Fannie is spelt slightly differently.)
On the civil record she died on 7th February 1931 at 10:15pm and as it
was at night, the Hebrew date would be the day after, which is 21
Sh'vat 5691 . The correct stone was easy to locate as they wrote the
Hebrew date and 8th February.
I now have no doubt now that Tzeipa was Jewish, Fanny was Jewish and so
were their children.
Phew....
I have no idea where the story in my family line about being
non-jewish came from.
David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel
Researching families: ZIANTS, ZENETSKI, DAVIDSON, ISHMA, ISMACH, OSMAN,
FRIEDMAN. (>from Narewka, Lodz, Lomza in Poland)
GABLE, GEWELBER, REINER, MICHAELS (England)
migrated to Glasgow, Scotland,UK at beginning of 20th century and
married Fanny nee BARULA, I now had the great idea of trying to find out
the Jewish name of his mother-in-law by correlating the family name and
date on the civil record and searching the gravestones with same family
name.
The mother-in-law's name on the civil record was Christina BARULA (nee
YAFFIE). Doing this, I have now found out that her Jewish name was
Tzeipa. It is written on the gravestone in English characters but no
name in Hebrew. Also Abraham and Fannie do not have on their stones the
names in Hebrew characters in the usual fashion.
Tzeipa BARULA did have her Hebrew name in Hebrew characters but the
given name is worn away and not legible. All that is left is "bat reb
Avraham".
So there were three graves that came up on the Glasgow Burial Societies
web-site when using "advanced search" on name BARULA. (Family name of
Joseph, father of Fannie is spelt slightly differently.)
On the civil record she died on 7th February 1931 at 10:15pm and as it
was at night, the Hebrew date would be the day after, which is 21
Sh'vat 5691 . The correct stone was easy to locate as they wrote the
Hebrew date and 8th February.
I now have no doubt now that Tzeipa was Jewish, Fanny was Jewish and so
were their children.
Phew....
I have no idea where the story in my family line about being
non-jewish came from.
David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel
Researching families: ZIANTS, ZENETSKI, DAVIDSON, ISHMA, ISMACH, OSMAN,
FRIEDMAN. (>from Narewka, Lodz, Lomza in Poland)
GABLE, GEWELBER, REINER, MICHAELS (England)
David Ziants
On my great-great-uncle Abraham OSMAN's mother-in-law's grave-stone
(i.e. Fanny's mother), I was able to have the grass cleared to reveal
her Jewish name in Hebrew characters. I wish to thank the Glasgow Hebrew
Burial Society (GHBS) in Scotland, UK that helped to facilitate this.
Her family name is BARULA (nee YAFFIE) and on the civil record her given
name was Christina - not exactly the most Jewish of names - as I
mentioned on a recent posting.
So understandingly, on the grave, this first name was not used, but her
Yiddish name Tzeipa was engraved in English characters. With the grass
cleared, it is now possible to see the name spelt - tzadi-yud-pey-hey -
and in Modern Hebrew would be pronounced Tzippa ("i" pronounced as in
"in").
It was shown to me the Modern Hebrew/Israeli name on:-
http://www.allhebrewnames.com/hebnames/en/name_details.seam?nameID=2965#
and although a meaning isn't given there - I would give it a meaning of
"hope" or "contemplation".
I don't think I have ever met someone with this name and I had not heard
of this as a name until now.
My questions are:-
1) Was the name spelt in Hebrew letters approx 85 years ago on the stone
meant to be pronounced Tzippa (or Tzippo if using Ashkenazi
pronunciation of Hebrew) or was it meant to be pronounced as indicated
by the English spelling (i.e Tzeipa) ?
2) Is Tzeipa - what I assume is a Yiddish name - essentially the same
name as Tzippa?
3) If tzadi-yud-pey-hey was meant to be pronounced Tzeipa and this is
different to the Israeli name Tzippa - then where does the name Tzeipa
come from?
David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel
Researching families: ZIANTS, ZENETSKI, DAVIDSON, ISHMA, ISMACH, OSMAN,
FRIEDMAN, ALPERT (>from Narewka, Lodz, Lomza in Poland)
GABLE, GEWELBER, REINER, MICHAELS (England)
(i.e. Fanny's mother), I was able to have the grass cleared to reveal
her Jewish name in Hebrew characters. I wish to thank the Glasgow Hebrew
Burial Society (GHBS) in Scotland, UK that helped to facilitate this.
Her family name is BARULA (nee YAFFIE) and on the civil record her given
name was Christina - not exactly the most Jewish of names - as I
mentioned on a recent posting.
So understandingly, on the grave, this first name was not used, but her
Yiddish name Tzeipa was engraved in English characters. With the grass
cleared, it is now possible to see the name spelt - tzadi-yud-pey-hey -
and in Modern Hebrew would be pronounced Tzippa ("i" pronounced as in
"in").
It was shown to me the Modern Hebrew/Israeli name on:-
http://www.allhebrewnames.com/hebnames/en/name_details.seam?nameID=2965#
and although a meaning isn't given there - I would give it a meaning of
"hope" or "contemplation".
I don't think I have ever met someone with this name and I had not heard
of this as a name until now.
My questions are:-
1) Was the name spelt in Hebrew letters approx 85 years ago on the stone
meant to be pronounced Tzippa (or Tzippo if using Ashkenazi
pronunciation of Hebrew) or was it meant to be pronounced as indicated
by the English spelling (i.e Tzeipa) ?
2) Is Tzeipa - what I assume is a Yiddish name - essentially the same
name as Tzippa?
3) If tzadi-yud-pey-hey was meant to be pronounced Tzeipa and this is
different to the Israeli name Tzippa - then where does the name Tzeipa
come from?
David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel
Researching families: ZIANTS, ZENETSKI, DAVIDSON, ISHMA, ISMACH, OSMAN,
FRIEDMAN, ALPERT (>from Narewka, Lodz, Lomza in Poland)
GABLE, GEWELBER, REINER, MICHAELS (England)