She died in a fire in NYC #general


Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 

Shelley asked for direct responses, but her query may be of help to others.

In order for us to help, you have to provide more detail for us.

Can you supply:
1. Her age at time of death?
2. Place of birth?
3. Marital status?
3. Any other details such as parents’ or spouse’s names?

The above info helps us narrow the field and eliminate candidates.

Based on the little info she did provide:

Stevemorse.org:
Searching for deaths in 1938 +/- 10 years:

Possibles:
a. Rosa Morganstern, b. 1880,“Austria”, d. April 1948, Brooklyn; resided Bklyn.
2168168
b. Rose Morganstien, b. 1869, Poland, d. Mar 1943, the Bronx; resided Bronx
2195856
c. Rose Morganstein, b. 1888, ?, d. Sep 1943, Manhattan 2131681
d. Rose Morgenstern, b. 1863, ?, d. Jun 1933, Brooklyn. 2070653
e. Rose Morgenstein, b. 1881, Russia, d. Feb 1935, Manhattan. 2078705
f. Rose Morgenstein, b. 1878, Poland, d. 1948, Brooklyn; resided Bklyn. 2168266
g. Rose Morgenstein, b. 1872, Austria, d. Aug 1938, Manhattan; resided Bronx.
2108114
h. Rose Morgenstern, b. 1864, Russia, d. Aug 1933, Brooklyn, 2071088
i. Rose Morgenstein, b. 1874, Russia, d. Feb 1943, Brooklyn; resided Bklyn.
2134505

Since you are not sure if she died at Bellevue, you cannot rule out those who
resided outside Manhattan.

Unless you can supply some/all of the info I listed above, your only choice
will be to order the films >from the FHL and view them. The film numbers are
listed after each entry.

You may want to check FindAGrave and see if someone listed her.

Good luck,
Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, AZ

On Jul 12, 2016, at 9:35 AM, Shelley Mitchell shelley.mitchell@att.net wrote:
“grandmother. …… her first name was Rose and her married name was MORGANSTERN.
The family story is that while she was cooking a meal for the Jewish holidays,
her apron caught fire. She suffered severe burns and was taken to the hospital
(probably Bellevue) where she died.
This occurred most likely on the Lower East Side.

Time period - sometime before 1943. I'm guessing 1930 - 1943.
I've looked in Ancestry, Familysearch, and Jewishgen.
I've tried to find her name in death records and some newspapers.
Does anyone have any ideas about what else I can do next?


Shelley Mitchell
 

Thank you for trying to help. I'll give you the steps I've taken and what I've
learned. Maybe that will help someone else.

The only information I have is that Rose was married to Mr. Morganstern and
they had a son named Louis. Little is known about Louis's parents. Our Louis
Morganstern married Pearl Waltzer (b. 1920). I don't know the year but since
their first born (named after Rose) was born in 1945, I concluded that Rose
died before 1944. Neither of Louis's parents were around when he married.
Louis and Pearl met on the Lower East Side where Louis was working. Our
Louis's second born's name begins with a J. I concluded he was named after
Rose's husband.

Our Louis was originally buried at King Solomon in New Jersey but was
reinterred by his widow at Eternal Light in Boynton Beach about 15 years ago
when she moved to Florida. He's in their Mausoleum, as is his widow. I checked
Findagrave and found no information on Louis or his mother Rose. I checked
Ancestry for an obituary but no article appeared. I would have thought that
her story would have hit some periodical since I saw similar articles in
obituaries on Ancestry.

I found 2 censuses for a Joseph and Rose Morgenstern who had a son named Louis.
In 1930, this Louis was 18 (b. 1912) and in 1940 (age 28) he was out of the
house. So these Morgensterns were alive in 1940. Our Louis and Pearl had their
first child in 1945 so Louis would have married by 1944. But I can't find
Louis's marriage record either. For that I checked both Ancestry and
Familysearch. I don't know when Rose died but if she died, per choice c, she
might have been a widow at the time of death. My best guess is that she was
taken to Bellevue. That's where most Lower East Side Jews went for births and
deaths. Our Louis was a Kohanim.

Thanks for trying to help.

Shelley Mitchell

Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@comcast.net> wrote:

Shelley asked for direct responses, but her query may be of help to others.

In order for us to help, you have to provide more detail for us.
Can you supply:
1. Her age at time of death?
2. Place of birth?
3. Marital status?
3. Any other details such as parents’ or spouse’s names?

The above info helps us narrow the field and eliminate candidates...
On Jul 12, 2016, at 9:35 AM, Shelley Mitchell shelley.mitchell@att.net wrote:
“ grandmother. …… her first name was Rose and her married name was
MORGANSTERN. The family story is that while she was cooking a meal for the
Jewish holidays, her apron caught fire.
She suffered severe burns and was taken to the hospital (probably Bellevue)
where she died.
This occurred most likely on the Lower East Side.

Time period - sometime before 1943. I'm guessing 1930 - 1943.

I've looked in Ancestry, Familysearch, and Jewishgen.
I've tried to find her name in death records and some newspapers.
Does anyone have any ideas about what else I can do next?


A. E. Jordan
 

From: Shelley Mitchell
...She knows that her first name was Rose and her married last name was
MORGANSTERN. The family story is that while she was cooking a meal for the
Jewish holidays, her apron caught fire. She suffered severe burns and was
taken to the hospital (probably Bellevue) where she died. This occurred most
likely on the Lower East Side.

The time period is sometime before 1943. I'm guessing 1930 - 1943...
Not trying to single anyone out ... but this is a good example of problem
solving and how to make the search a little easier.

Do you know her approximate birth date? Do you know her husband's name?

Use the facts you know and start with the most basic of searches which is the
US Census. Is she in the 1930 Census? What does that tell you about her, ie
address, age, etc.

Is she in the 1940 Census? Can you find her husband in the 1940 Census? In he
is at the same address it is likely you have the address for where this might
have happened. Of course if she is in the 1940 Census that changes you date
window. Always use basic searches to narrow you date window -- or as I say
put a ring around your dates and try to close the range as much as possible.

You might get lucky and search the NY Times -- which is entirely digital --
and find her death notice or because of the odd circumstances even a news story.

Do you know when the husband died and more importantly where he was buried? He
might he buried next to the wife.

Also try using the Morse One Step tool which is the most basic for NYC vital
records. It has the NYC Death Index and I did a quick search on Rose and sounds
line Morganstern in case the spelling was off. (You could also put wild cards
in for all the vowels when you search.) I assumed she was anywhere between age
20 and 100. That search along gave me three possibilities and over 100 total
names.

These steps alone should make this type of searching much easier. There's more
but I wanted to keep this basic on how to tackle this type of search. It is
likely because of the circumstances there could be a medical examiner's
investigation for example but I would reserve that for a later date once the
basics on the death have been established.

Allan Jordan


Shelley Mitchell
 

Hi fellow Genners -
I'm trying to help a friend find her paternal grandmother. She knows that her
first name was Rose and her married last name was MORGANSTERN. The family story
is that while she was cooking a meal for the Jewish holidays, her apron caught
fire. She suffered severe burns and was taken to the hospital (probably
Bellevue) where she died. This occurred most likely on the Lower East Side.

The time period is sometime before 1943. I'm guessing 1930 - 1943. I've looked
in Ancestry, Familysearch, and Jewishgen. I've tried to find her name in death
records and some newspapers. Does anyone have any ideas about what else I can
do next?

Please contact me directly.
Thank you.

Shelley Mitchell