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Confused about names #ukraine

MERYL RIZZOTTI
 

Hello Genners:
I have been puzzled by what I consider a break in the Ashkenazi tradition of not
naming children after living relatives. I first discovered this in my Povlotsky
family >from Shpola, Ukraine. On the 1900 census my Great great grandfather,
Abraham was on the Philadelphia census living with my great grandfather and his
family. That family had changed the surname to Haas and my Great Great
grandfather was on the census as Abraham Haas. On the 1910 census my great
grandfather now had a son named Abraham and my great great grandfather was not
on the census. Naturally, I assumed he had died between 1900 and 1904 when
Abraham #2 was born. I spent a lot of time looking for the death record of
Abraham Haas in the Philadelphia City Archives to no avail. When I found that
the real name of the family was Povlotsky I found my great great grandfather,
still using the name Abraham on the 1910, 1920 and 1930 census.

Then with my Specter family, I was told that my cousin Murray was named after
his grandfather Morris (Moische) who was >from Boguslar, Ukraine. Then Morris had
a daughter named Harriet who named her daughter Harriet as well. Now, Harriet
#1was named Essie when she was born, was "Nannie" on the 1900 census and Hannah
on the 1920 census.

Would using a different surname (in the case of the Haas/Povlotsky family) make
it acceptable to name a child after a living relative and/or was it acceptable
for a person to name her child after the name she had adopted for herself if
that was not her given name at birth? Is this tradition of not naming after a
living person not strictly adhered to among Ukrainians? I have not found any of
these instances in my Polish family.

Meryl Rizzotti
Researching the names: POVLOTSKY, BASOI, SPECTER, SLEPAK, TEPEROWICZ, CYMES,
KREZEWIN
pcohen@...
 

My great-grandfather, Sam Cohen, lived >from about 1850 - 1930. In 1898, his grandson Sam Cohen was born. Why was this OK? Because their English names are not their "names". My great grandfather's Hebrew name was Shraga Shlomo and my uncle Sam's Hebrew name was Zalmen. Neither one was named Shmuel, as you might expect >from "Sam".

Peter Cohen
Pleasanton, California

-----Original Message-----
From: MERYL RIZZOTTI <mrizzotti@...>
Sent: Oct 18, 2011 8:00 PM
To: Ukraine SIG <ukraine@...>
Subject: [ukraine] Confused about names
Hello Genners:
I have been puzzled by what I consider a break in the Ashkenazi tradition of not
naming children after living relatives. I first discovered this in my Povlotsky
family >from Shpola, Ukraine. On the 1900 census my Great great grandfather,
Abraham was on the Philadelphia census living with my great grandfather and his
family. That family had changed the surname to Haas and my Great Great
grandfather was on the census as Abraham Haas. On the 1910 census my great
grandfather now had a son named Abraham and my great great grandfather was not
on the census. Naturally, I assumed he had died between 1900 and 1904 when
Abraham #2 was born. I spent a lot of time looking for the death record of
Abraham Haas in the Philadelphia City Archives to no avail. When I found that
the real name of the family was Povlotsky I found my great great grandfather,
still using the name Abraham on the 1910, 1920 and 1930 census.

Then with my Specter family, I was told that my cousin Murray was named after
his grandfather Morris (Moische) who was >from Boguslar, Ukraine. Then Morris had
a daughter named Harriet who named her daughter Harriet as well. Now, Harriet
#1was named Essie when she was born, was "Nannie" on the 1900 census and Hannah
on the 1920 census.

Would using a different surname (in the case of the Haas/Povlotsky family) make
it acceptable to name a child after a living relative and/or was it acceptable
for a person to name her child after the name she had adopted for herself if
that was not her given name at birth? Is this tradition of not naming after a
living person not strictly adhered to among Ukrainians? I have not found any of
these instances in my Polish family.

Meryl Rizzotti
Researching the names: POVLOTSKY, BASOI, SPECTER, SLEPAK, TEPEROWICZ, CYMES,
KREZEWIN
sandy@...
 

Naming after the dead is only a custom, begun, I believe, during the
Middle Ages and has to do with the superstition of a person's soul being
taken by the baby. One is not supposed to name a new baby after a dead
child either. However, the Sephardim have a custom of naming the first
born son after the paternal living grandfather and the first born
daughter after the living maternal grandmother. Your family may have
Sephardic roots.

On 10/18/2011 11:00 PM, MERYL RIZZOTTI wrote:

Hello Genners:
I have been puzzled by what I consider a break in the Ashkenazi tradition of not
naming children after living relatives. I first discovered this in my Povlotsky
family >from Shpola, Ukraine. On the 1900 census my Great great grandfather,
Abraham was on the Philadelphia census living with my great grandfather and his
family. That family had changed the surname to Haas and my Great Great
grandfather was on the census as Abraham Haas. On the 1910 census my great
grandfather now had a son named Abraham and my great great grandfather was not
on the census. Naturally, I assumed he had died between 1900 and 1904 when
Abraham #2 was born. I spent a lot of time looking for the death record of
Abraham Haas in the Philadelphia City Archives to no avail. When I found that
the real name of the family was Povlotsky I found my great great grandfather,
still using the name Abraham on the 1910, 1920 and 1930 census.

Then with my Specter family, I was told that my cousin Murray was named after
his grandfather Morris (Moische) who was >from Boguslar, Ukraine. Then Morris had
a daughter named Harriet who named her daughter Harriet as well. Now, Harriet
#1was named Essie when she was born, was "Nannie" on the 1900 census and Hannah
on the 1920 census.

Would using a different surname (in the case of the Haas/Povlotsky family) make
it acceptable to name a child after a living relative and/or was it acceptable
for a person to name her child after the name she had adopted for herself if
that was not her given name at birth? Is this tradition of not naming after a
living person not strictly adhered to among Ukrainians? I have not found any of
these instances in my Polish family.

Meryl Rizzotti
Researching the names: POVLOTSKY, BASOI, SPECTER, SLEPAK, TEPEROWICZ, CYMES,
KREZEWIN
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