Hungary SIG #Hungary RE: Re:RE: Lists and Miskolc #hungary

Katz, Itzik <Itzik.Katz@...>

Although I was born and raised in Israel I lived in a small village that =
was founded by Holocaust survivors >from Hungary. Therefore all the day =
to day activities in the village were carried out in Hungarian. My =
parents talked Hungarian at home and this is how I picked a little bit =
of the language.

Since most of the village residents were Hungarian, we, the children, =
only knew most of the women by their private and husband names. For =
example Miriam, Ede's wife was called by all of us as Ede Miriam. This =
came also to distinguish her >from another Miriam who was married to a =
Jonah. The later one was named Jonah Miriam.=20

I believe this is all coming >from the dominant Patriarchal element in =
the Hungarian culture. Men were considered as more important then women. =
Women got their position in society based on what husband they were =
married to. And this cultural aspect is reflected in the naming =
convention and population records, which is, as Hirsch said, very =
unfortunate to genealogists.=20

Isaac Katz

-----Original Message-----
From: "G=E1bor Hirsch" []=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: Re:[h-sig] RE: Lists and Miskolc

It is may be a drawback >from genealogical sight, that married women are =
listed with their husbands name, but this was the only name I knew my =
neighbors, my acquaintances. In the "Nevek" book >from KZ Stutthof the =
women were listed according their maiden names, so my cousin second =
grade, Biro Eva was separated on the list >from her mother Holczer Ilona, =
I knew her only as Ilonka neni or Biro Emilne, so it was only by chance =
that after finding Eva I looked for her mother too. I found this =

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:39:15 -0400
Von: tom <>
An: "H-SIG" <>
Betreff: Re:[h-sig] RE: Lists and Miskolc
one of the drawbacks of the "hungarian jewish survivors listed in a
hungarian periodical" list seems to be that married women are listed =
the customary hungarian fashion as "wife of" and their husband's name, =
but the transcription includes neither their given nor maiden names.
once again, it helps to experiment a bit with the search function: =
are 116 hits for exactly ROSENBERG, but none of them have a given name =
ilona. however, there are only 4 records for PINTER, including one =
"PINTE'R, Dr. Be'lane', born 1898, place of birth not specified, =
Tr=F6bitz, page 17", which might be the one, if you know her husband's =
....... tom klein, toronto