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Sare Czarne Margulies


Richard Gross
 

Due to my post on 14 January I've broken down this brick wall and found family connections. Thank you to everyone. This forum is definitely wonderful. Beulah Gross


Simon Srebrny
 

I just discovered that my Sura Czarna Goldreich was indeed the wife of a Leybus Chaim Margules, a kupiec / merchant living in Brody, when she gave birth to their son Maness Margules in Lublin on 28 August 1814. The birth was reported by Scharya Mendel Moszkowicz Goldreich, grandfather of the baby's mother. In the record she is called 'Sora z Judkowiczów'. These are the right people. The baby was born in my family's house, Nr.482, which is still there though no longer ours. So I think I can greet Beulah Gross and her husband as new blood relatives!

The 1814 Lublin birth record is here:

https://szukajwarchiwach.pl/35/1858/0/1/13/str/1/1/100/eTRm17kP6rCgo08nhGhOGw/#tabSkany


Simon Srebrny
 

How amazing that somebody else -- hello Beulah Gross! -- has been looking into this person at the same time as me! I think Sare Czarne Margulies is in fact not a Margulies but a Goldreich. Here is why...

The 1828 Lublin death record of Judka Goldreich, my 1C 5R, says that among his nine surviving children is a daughter named Sura Czarne living in Lwow.
There are very few records for any Sura Czarne at the Gesher Galicia database. Those there are indicate there was one Sura Czarne married to Herz Gross.
Most of the birth records of the children of that couple do not give the mother's maiden name. Then there is that one dismaying 1836 Lwow birth record that calls her Margulies. Back to that in a moment.

The 1853 Ozarow record of the marriage of my Sura Czarne Goldreich, daughter of Judka and Ruchla Goldreich, to Szol Dawid Cukier says she was divorced from a Mr Gross! His first name is not mentioned.

So my Sura Czarna had been living in Lwow and had been married to a Mr Gross. There is no proof that the wife of Herz Gross is my Sura Czarna. But if she is not, then my Sura Czarna and her Mr Gross have made no appearance at all in the Lwow records so far extracted and online for us to enjoy and they remain entirely bathed in darkness. A bit odd but possible.

So what of the Margulies mention? Two things come to mind. 1. The clerk simply had a brain fart. 2. Sura Czarna had had yet another husband, a first one named Margulies, before she hitched up with Herz Gross. Mr Margulies then died or they divorced. As she was born around 1794 (according to her tombstone inscription in Warsaw), she would have had time for a previous husband. 
During the registration of the birth of Josef Salomon Gross, the story got a bit blurry and the clerk noted down the former married name of the mother as the maiden name. I have been hunting for a Goldreich-Margulies marriage record but not found one yet.

 

So what is the truth? Your thoughts? Is there anybody out there who can solve the mystery?

The 1828 Lublin death record is here:
http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/35/1753/0/1.3/23/str/1/2/100/ANQXUmEZGJCXR1MQRqGd5w/#tabSkany

The 1853 Ozarow marriage record is here:
http://metryki.genbaza.com/genbaza,detail,104515,38

The 1836 Lwow birth record is here:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS9T-T99G-C?i=690&cat=1343978

I am s
orry this post is so long.


Renee Steinig
 

It's possible that there were two more children. Gesher Galicia's All Galicia Database (https://search.geshergalicia.org) also lists

Samuel GROS, son of Herz and Channa
Birth registered in Lwow in 1826

An unnamed daughter of Herz GROSS and Chana
Age 7 days
Death registered in Lwow in 1833

Like the other children, they were members of "Congregational Family 2408," so perhaps Channa and Chana were misspellings of Czarne.

Also in the All Galicia Database: 

The marriage (1862, Lwow) of Isaac Juda GROSS, son of Herz GROSS and Sara Czarna, and Slatta DRUKER, daughter of Simon FREUD and Bella DRUKER.

Renee

Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills NY
genmaven@...


Beulah Gross <beulah144@...> wrote:

Can anyone supply more information about Sare Czarne Margulies. She was the second wife of my husband's ancestor, Herz (aka Hyman) Gross. He was born in 1793 and died 1853 in L'viv, Ukraine. Their children were Leib, twins Isac Juda and Feigel Gittel, a stillborn and Josef Salamon who was my husband's great, great grandfather. I found all this on Gesher Galicia but cannot find anything more about her.


Richard Gross
 

Can anyone supply more information about Sare Czarne Margulies. She was the second wife of my husband's ancestor, Herz (aka Hyman) Gross. He was born in 1793 and died 1853 in L'viv, Ukraine. Their children were Leib, twins Isac Juda and Feigel Gittel, a stillborn and Josef Salamon who was my husband's great, great grandfather. I found all this on Gesher Galicia but cannot find anything more about her.