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Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England


Steve Stein
 

I found a passenger, Yanckel Farfel, on a Hamburg list. I would like to track him across the ocean. According to a list I found on Ancestry, he departed in June 1887 on the ship Flamingo headed for New York. However, I can find neither him nor the Flamingo arriving in New York. The record in Ancestry indicates that the arrival place is "Hull (Amerika) via Liverpool", spelled and punctuated exactly like that.

I believe that this individual, upon arriving in New York, may be our relative who changed his name to Jacob Fink. I can see him in various US and NYS censuses, and can calculate his birth date at about 1869 and his arrival date at about 1887 or perhaps 1888, but not consistently. I have not yet acquired his naturalization papers from Brooklyn which would indicate the ship and date he said he arrived on, but in the interim, what does the arrival place indicate? Does it say that he arrived in Hull, on the eastern coast of England, and traveled overland to Liverpool before departing for America?

Steve Stein
Highland Park, NJ


Diane Jacobs
 

Steve,

 

There are direct and indirect Hamburg passenger manifests for these years which I had to

use to find my greatgrandparents and granfather arriving from Hamberg to Hull and then

from Liverpool to NYC in 1888.   To find them (this is before the internet databases) I used

Volume 4 from the 6 volume set of Migration from the Russian Empire edited by Glazier. 

You  would need Vol. 3 and 4 to check out names by yourself or use ancestry.com and

familysearch.org to search for the passenger manifest from England to US. There is an

index of names but then you have to be creative as spelling can be very different from the

original or the one you know about.

 

I did not know their surname but using Vol. 4 and knowing that they came during the Great

Blizzard of 1888 in NYC, I was able to go through all the passenger manifest from March

31 back to March 11 by looking at family with 3 or more children.  There I found them and the

name they used in Europe which was different from the name they used in the US after they

arrived as I knew the names of 8 of their 9 childen

 

Hope this helpful to you.

 

Diane Jacobs

 

 


From: main@... [mailto:main@...] On Behalf Of Steve Stein
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 10:14 AM
To: main@...
Subject: [JewishGen.org] Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England #liverpool

 

I found a passenger, Yanckel Farfel, on a Hamburg list. I would like to track him across the ocean. According to a list I found on Ancestry, he departed in June 1887 on the ship Flamingo headed for New York. However, I can find neither him nor the Flamingo arriving in New York. The record in Ancestry indicates that the arrival place is "Hull (Amerika) via Liverpool", spelled and punctuated exactly like that.

I believe that this individual, upon arriving in New York, may be our relative who changed his name to Jacob Fink. I can see him in various US and NYS censuses, and can calculate his birth date at about 1869 and his arrival date at about 1887 or perhaps 1888, but not consistently. I have not yet acquired his naturalization papers from Brooklyn which would indicate the ship and date he said he arrived on, but in the interim, what does the arrival place indicate? Does it say that he arrived in Hull, on the eastern coast of England, and traveled overland to Liverpool before departing for America?

Steve Stein
Highland Park, NJ


--
Diane Jacobs


Susan&David
 

My father took a similar route in 1913. Hamburg to Hull or Grimsby,  then a train to Liverpool where other ships  would take on their US bound passengers.  I transcribed the passenger list for his ship to Boston and submitted it to the website of the Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild.  Some time later I did the same for his Hamburg  departure and discovered that many passengers on the same page of the first ship could be found on the same page of the second ship.  Using that as a guide I searched for 1887 ships arriving NY with the name of one of Yankel Farfel's co-passengers, Wilhelm Schafer/Schaefer (one of the more legible names on his page) and found Wilhelm on the Arizona, coming in on June 20 1887. Sure enough Yankel Farfel was on the next line.  Yankel is indexed on Ancestry.com as Yankel Tarfel.

David Rosen
Boston, MA


 

On 1/17/2020 10:13 AM, Steve Stein wrote:
I found a passenger, Yanckel Farfel, on a Hamburg list. I would like to track him across the ocean. According to a list I found on Ancestry, he departed in June 1887 on the ship Flamingo headed for New York. However, I can find neither him nor the Flamingo arriving in New York. The record in Ancestry indicates that the arrival place is "Hull (Amerika) via Liverpool", spelled and punctuated exactly like that.

I believe that this individual, upon arriving in New York, may be our relative who changed his name to Jacob Fink. I can see him in various US and NYS censuses, and can calculate his birth date at about 1869 and his arrival date at about 1887 or perhaps 1888, but not consistently. I have not yet acquired his naturalization papers from Brooklyn which would indicate the ship and date he said he arrived on, but in the interim, what does the arrival place indicate? Does it say that he arrived in Hull, on the eastern coast of England, and traveled overland to Liverpool before departing for America?

Steve Stein
Highland Park, NJ


David Oseas
 

Steve,

According to Steve Morse's & The Ships List websites, there were 4 liners with ships called "Flamingo" through the years.  There are only 2 recorded landings in the US and those were in Boston, not NY, and were much earlier than the dates you are interested in.  It is likely that your relative sailed on the Flamingo to reach Liverpool, then departed on a different ship for the US.

Also, note that naturalization papers of that era contained very little information -- only the name, city of residence & signature of the petitioner and the signature of a witness.

Regards,
David Oseas

Researching:
HYMAN/HEYMAN/HEIMOWITS/CHAJMOVITS: Zemplen-Dobra, Hungary > New York
KLEIN: Satoraljaujhely (Ujhely), Hungary > New York > Los Angeles
OSEAS/OSIAS/OSIASI/OZIAS: Iasi, Romania > Chicago > Milwaukee > Los Angeles;  STRUL: : Iasi, Romania > Haifa, Israel
SCHECHTER/SHEKTER: Kishinev, Bessarabia > New York;    SHERMAN: Iasi, Romania > New York > Los Angeles
WICHMAN: Syczkowo (Bobruisk), Belarus > Milwaukee > Los Angeles;   STECKER: New York > Florida


Sheila Toffell
 

One comment, Hull is on the East Coast of England and Liverpool on the West Coast. There was some kind of requirement to stay in the UK before passengers could get on a ship to the US. Some cities had places where emigrants could stay. 


Sheila Toffell
Glen Rock NJ
From Ukriane: KORSUNSKY,from the Tarasche area,  BERESNOV from Yelisavetograd or Rivne (near Yelisavetograd) 

From Poland: LAKUMSKI from Skulsk, RACHWALSKI from Slesin, LAZARUS from Kobryn Bialystok, TOFEL, TOFFEL from Josefow nad Wisla 


David Ellis
 

I don't know about Hull.  My g-gf Abram IOELS also is documented in the Hamburg departure lists, but I don't see him in the manifests from England or New York.  His naturalization record shows an arrival date in New York as 10 April 1888.  Eight ships arrived in New York that day, and manifests are extant for only four of them.  As one researcher put it, I lost the coin toss.  Go for Jacob's naturalization record; maybe you'll have better luck than I did.


N. Summers
 


In response to your question about tracking a relative’s journey from Hull to the US, i’d like to share a few resources that I found for a similar search. 

In addition, I found the following pages mentioning the ship Flamingo: 

(it looks like the Flamingo was  named the Reiher when it was built in 1909 and was renamed in 1938. In 1939 it was requisitioned by the German Navy. It was sunk in 1945. )

Other resources:

The British Board of Trade outbound passenger lists

Transmigration via England



Germans to America/using Hamburg passenger lists:
(Also on ancestry.com)

The only mention I could find of the passenger ship Flamingo was on this page discussing ships traveling from Britain to South Africa :

Hope some of this helps in your search. 

Nancy S
Maryland USA

FINKELSTEIN, LUSMAN (Radzivilov, Ukraine); BOOKSTEIN/BUCHSTEIN (Ostrog, Poland); LEAF/LIFSHITZ (Rechitsa); ALPER/LISS ( )


Martha Forsyth
 

TRUST YOU to come up with this ingenious method!  I was all excited! UNTIL.....I realized that the people about whose travel I'd love to find out more about had each stayed for awhile in England (one of them about 3 years, her husband about 5 months, as far as I can figure)!  So it was not a continuous trip for either (nor for the family who may be relatives).  Also - it's the leg from "Russia" to England that I've never found, for either of them, so - but Hope Springs Eternal, I guess.

Martha Forsyth
Newton, MA


henry
 

Steve,

The usual route for emigrants from Germany and northern Europe was by ship from Hamburg to Hull or Grimsby on the east coast of England, thence by train to Liverpool where they would board another ship to the US or Canada. This was in the days before passports were required and, as they were only 'passing through', no UK record was made of their arrival or departure.

Emigrants from southern Europe to the US and Canada usually travelled through Cherbourg (France) and Southampton (England), although other departure ports on the mainland of Europe were sometimes used.

Henry Best,
London, UK.


Sally Bruckheimer
 

Many went directly to New York from Hamburg, avoiding the change of ship. Emigrants in my family from southern Germany  left from Le Havre to New York.

There were, of course, many other possibilities.

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ


Jill Whitehead
 

The most common way for immigrants to reach the USA in the 1860's to 1880's was for them to arrive in Hull on the North Sea Coast and travel overland by train to Liverpool to go onwards to the USA. There is a memorial at Hull Railway station to this movement of people and it is much documented by historians, especially at the University of Hull which has a specialist maritime history dept, as does Liverpool University.   In 2008, my genetic cousin Howard Wolinsky of Chicago made a TV programme for the BBC in the Coast series, which showed how his ancestor made the same journey from Libau in Latvia, to a German port, thence to Hull and Liverpool.  In his case, his ancestor travelled in the early 1890's, and made the very last journey for some months, as his German port was closed due to a Cholera outbreak. My ancestors also made this journey in part, likely from Konigsberg in the 1860's and 1870's, as they came from Suwalki Lomza on the borders with Konigsberg (East Prussia). My Guttenberg family from Raigrod made this journey in c1865 on a  sailing ship to Hull,  and they remained in Hull, although the family story is that they were due to go onto USA but were too sea sick to go on, although others found their tickets would not take them any further or they were robbed on arrival in Hull. Sailing ships were then replaced by steam ships, and faster steam ships, when the new deep water port was opened at nearby Grimsby (my Guttenberg Hull family moved to Grimsby and then Sheffield) . My great grandmother's much younger sister followed her to Hull 20 years after she had arrived, but tragedy awaited. Her teenage son Jacob used to get tips at Hull Docks  from newly arrived immigrants for showing them where they should go to get the train or find accommodation. Alas on one day he had an accident, and fell into the deep sea harbour at Hull and drowned. But check out Hull and Liverpool Universities for their info on Jewish immigration by sea, both cross Baltic and cross Atlantic. Note there is very little in the way of passenger documentation from the Baltic to Hull - but Hull Uni has info on the boats and ship lines that plied this trade, and the ports they used - the majority of ships manifests are cross Atlantic.


Roberta Sheps
 

Another port on the east coast was Grimsby.

Roberta Sheps
Colchester, UK


rv Kaplan
 

And another port on the west coast for onward migration to USA etc was Glasgow, Scotland.

I have traced the emigration of my great great grandparents, Hirsch Fayn (Harry Fine) and his wife Bune, from Lithuania in November, 1902.  They are listed in the Hamburg passengers lists  (under Fein!) leaving Hamburg on 21 November 1902 on the Lutterworth, a ship of the Hamburg-Amerika Line, and sailed to Grimsby.  From there, they would have continued on by train to Glasgow, where some of their children lived.   Tragically, Bune Fayn died on 11 December 1902, less than three weeks after arriving in Glasgow.  Her death certificate attributes her death to pneumonia, which may have been caused (or at least aggravated) by the 32-hour journey the previous month across the North Sea from Hamburg to Grimsby.  Perhaps Bune had been ill already, and aged 62, at that time she was already an old lady.  


Harvey Kaplan

Glasgow


KAPLAN, FAYN, FEIN, FINE, BARSD, GRADMAN

- Ariogala, Josvainiai, Kedainiai, Krakes, Seta, Veliuona, Grinkiskis, Lithuania

FELMAN, MILER, ROSENBLOOM - Kamenets-Podolsk, Shatava, Balyn, Ukraine

TROPP, STORCH - Kolbuszowa, Cmolas,Galicia

LINDERMAN, LINDEMAN, LOPATKA, SCHLACKMAN – Kutno and  Plock, Poland


On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 16:30, Roberta Sheps via Groups.Jewishgen.Org <rsheps=ntlworld.com@...> wrote:
Another port on the east coast was Grimsby.

Roberta Sheps
Colchester, UK


Deanna Levinsky
 

I know my grandmother and three children came (somehow) from Nezhin , Ukraine to Liverpool, to Glasgow and as a pregnant widow, to New York USA. This was in December 1907. 
DEANNA LEVINSKY 
Long Island, New York 
Searching- Rifkin, Schafferenko, Slonimski 

--
Deanna M. Levinsky, Long Island, NY


Paul King
 

Tracking immigration from England to North America includes Canadian ports such as Halifax and Quebec City among other dockings. From the British North American ports (Canada after 1867), immigrants made their way to their various destinations. Thus, not finding ancestors on ship manifest lists recording entry to U. S. ports may suggest that initial entry was 'north of the border'. In this case, I believe there are not entry records.

Paul KING
JERUSALEM.


Sharen Hogarth
 

I have a document from 1906 noting that my grandparents provided information at the U.S./Manitoba Canada border in order to confirm that they had travelled by boat from Belgium to Canada and  taken a train from Halifax to Winnipeg, Manitoba en route to Minneapolis. The document notes that they originally came from Russia, how much money they had & the name & address of my grandfather’s uncle in Minneapolis.

Their ship manifest from Belgium also noted that they were headed to the U.S.

Sharen Hogarth

Ontario,Canada

 

Tracking immigration from England to North America includes Canadian ports such as Halifax and Quebec City among other dockings. From the British North American ports (Canada after 1867), immigrants made their way to their various destinations. Thus, not finding ancestors on ship manifest lists recording entry to U. S. ports may suggest that initial entry was 'north of the border'. In this case, I believe there are not entry records.

Paul KING
JERUSALEM.


bernerfolk
 

There are entry records for immigrants who came to the US via Canada.  People were ticketed through to their destination in the US via rail, and in some cases, ferry.  Except for very early in the migration period, the US stationed inspectors in Canada.  There they did the same evaluation on passengers arriving at Canadian ports as they did at US ports. 

Immigrants who passed the inspection/evaluation were given a slip of paper documenting their clearance for transit to the US.  Those who didn't clear were deported directly from Canada.

People who had spent less than a month in Canada presented their arrival 'pass' [my word] when boarding the train for their destination in the US, no pass...no boarding. 

The documents recording their arrival are frequently called the St. Albans files, although they cover most of the US-Canada border and not just people coming through VT.  I have not found them on FS, here's a link to the search page for the main collection on Ancestry (Detroit is separate):
https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/1075/ 

Sherri Venditti
The Berkshires, USA


Jill Whitehead
 

There were various different ports on both the East Coast of the UK and West Coast that were engaged in either North Sea/Baltic or Atlantic shipping respectively. We have already mentioned Hull and Grimsby, which were either side of the Humber estuary on the borders of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire.  But there was also Leith, which is still the port for Edinburgh in Scotland. My Brown (formerly Brin) family of Edinburgh travelled from Vishtinetz in Suwalki Gubernia (now Vistytis in Lithuania) to Leith via Sweden (so the family history goes). And some of my lines married other Landsmen who had family who stayed in Sweden, and I link up via DNA with one such family, who came via Hull to Manchester, but had some family who stayed in Sweden. Of my family (who all came from the Suwalki Lomza gubernias in the 1860's and 1870's), one line came direct to Hull and stayed there, one went from Hull to Liverpool (probably with the intention of going to USA but they stayed in Liverpool), one went from Hull to Manchester via Liverpool, and the 4th line went to Leith and then Edinburgh. The Maritime Museums in both Hull and Liverpool are other useful sources of information on emigration and shipping. 

On the West Coast, Liverpool and Glasgow were the main ports, and they went to a variety of different US and Canadian destinations including New York, Boston and Halifax, Nova Scotia. A variety of German, Dutch and Swedish ports were used to travel across the Baltic and North Sea, including Hamburg, Libau, Konigsberg, Rotterdam, Stockholm and others. The reference to Hull Amerika will be to the boat line which used the Hamburg-Hull-Liverpool-USA route.
There were a number of competing lines/routes, especially when steam ships/faster stream ships came in. Hull University is the place that has documented the lines/routes.

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK


David Oseas
 

Sherri,

The St. Albans lists are definitely on FamilySearch -- I use them there all the time:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/452590

Regards,
David Oseas

Researching:
HYMAN/HEYMAN/HEIMOWITS/CHAJMOVITS: Zemplen-Dobra, Hungary > New York
KLEIN: Satoraljaujhely (Ujhely), Hungary > New York > Los Angeles
OSEAS/OSIAS/OSIASI/OZIAS: Iasi, Romania > Chicago > Milwaukee > Los Angeles 
SCHECHTER/SHEKTER: Kishinev, Bessarabia > New York   
SHERMAN: Iasi, Romania > New York > Los Angeles
STECKER: New York > Florida
STRUL:  Iasi, Romania > Haifa, Israel
WICHMAN: Syczkowo (Bobruisk), Belarus > Milwaukee > Los Angeles  


bernerfolk
 

Thank you David!  For whatever reason, I've never been able to find anyone in FS.  I tried mightily for the person who requested the info in this group but finally gave up and went to Ancestry. 

Sherri Venditti



-----Original Message-----
From: doseas via [] <doseas=yahoo.com@[]>
To: bernerfolk <bernerfolk@...>; main <main@...>
Sent: Mon, Jan 20, 2020 12:45 pm
Subject: Re: [JewishGen.org] Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England

Sherri,


The St. Albans lists are definitely on FamilySearch -- I use them there all the time:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/452590

Regards,
David Oseas

Researching:
HYMAN/HEYMAN/HEIMOWITS/CHAJMOVITS: Zemplen-Dobra, Hungary > New York
KLEIN: Satoraljaujhely (Ujhely), Hungary > New York > Los Angeles
OSEAS/OSIAS/OSIASI/OZIAS: Iasi, Romania > Chicago > Milwaukee > Los Angeles 
SCHECHTER/SHEKTER: Kishinev, Bessarabia > New York   
SHERMAN: Iasi, Romania > New York > Los Angeles
STECKER: New York > Florida
STRUL:  Iasi, Romania > Haifa, Israel
WICHMAN: Syczkowo (Bobruisk), Belarus > Milwaukee > Los Angeles