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Pale of Settlement

mvayser@...
 

Vladimir,
Your ggfather would have had to undertake a step to register with another society to no longer be considered a Slonim meschanin.  This was not mandatory.  My ggfather was also born in Slonim, while being registered with Ozernitsa society (20 km west of Slonim).  He lived most of his life in Odessa and his marriage/children births in Odessa list him as being an Ozernitsa meschanin.

Regards,
Mike


Vladimir Oksman
Jan 19   

Most of the "Russian" Jews are from Pale. 
My great-grandfather Isaac Zeliviansky originally is from Slonim, Belarus. Slonim was inside Pale. He got permit to live outside Pale, in Stavropol, Russia. He got it because his profession - tailor, his specialization was hats. He just have found his profession is in demand there, in Stavropol. He moved from Pale at 1876. Interestingly he still listed in all records as "Slonim meshanin".
Odeda Zlotnick
 

would this same Yiddish speaker have pronounced "Russian-Poland"?
The Yiddish speaker (e.g. my GF from Tomaszow Mazowietsky) pronounced it "Russisch Polen"
e l
 

Hello Mr. Oland,

You asked to know if a certain book was in a library where you could read it, but you did not indicate where you are located so that the nearest library to you holding the book could be identified.  I suggest that you consult https://www.worldcat.org/.  After inputting the name of the book, the second page will allow you to input your location and see the nearest library holding the book of interest.

It would have been useful to have listed the city in which you are located.  As the JewishGen instructions indicate at https://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/DiscussionGroup.htm/, under "Signature"), it is a good idea to list your location.  The location information helps in pointing you toward physical repositories holding relevant information.
 
I do not do research for others, and my time is limited.  I cannot spend more time on this issue.  However, the list of publications below my name includes books, articles, online postings, online lectures, television shows, book reviews, etc. You might wish to consult the list to see if any of my publications might be of further help to you.  You must have an open Google account (free) to access the URL.
 
I wish you success in your continuing research.
 
Sincerely,
Edward David Luft
Juris Doctor
https://sites.google.com/site/edwarddavidluftbibliography/home/edward-david-luft-bibliography
Debbie Lifshitz
 

Translation of Yiddish/ Hebrew:
Border (or Territory) of Settlement
All the best,
Debbie Lifschitz
Jerusalem
olandm@...
 

Would be very interested in reading through your book, but the cost (as listed on Amazon) is way out there, especially the kindle version ($139!). Is it available in public libraries? Thanks. Mark Oland
Vivienne Fleet
 

On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 04:28 PM, <assaf.patir@...> wrote:
And what would be the literal translation of the Yiddish term Der t'hum ha-moy-shəv? דער תחום המושב-- 
Vivienne Fleet
United Kingdom researching:
FRYDE / FRIEDE - Kalisz, Poland; Łask, Poland; Sunderland, England
KISSELHOFF - Bol'shiye-Luki, Belarus (aka Velikiye-Luki, Belarus); Vitebsk, Belarus; Daugavpils, Latvia
KAFFEL - Riga, Latvia; South Africa
GERSHOWITZ - Belarus
ROBERT MITCHELL <romitch@...>
 

For those of you interested in what the Pale of Settlement during the nineteenth century, see Robert Mitchell's Human Geographies Within the Pale of Settlement: Order and Disorder During the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries, Macmillan-Palgrave, 2018/9
Vladimir Oksman
 

Most of the "Russian" Jews are from Pale. 
My great-grandfather Isaac Zeliviansky originally is from Slonim, Belarus. Slonim was inside Pale. He got permit to live outside Pale, in Stavropol, Russia. He got it because his profession - tailor, his specialization was hats. He just have found his profession is in demand there, in Stavropol. He moved from Pale at 1876. Interestingly he still listed in all records as "Slonim meshanin".
Yefim Kogan
 

Here are a few more comments about Pale of Settlement. The area with that name is not only land acquired from the Kingdom of Poland.  Areas of Tavria (Crimea) and Kherson gubernia were also part of Pale, but never were under Poland,  but rather Turkey and Tatars.

 

Also some of the categories (estates) of Jews were allowed to live outside of Pale:  Merchants, University graduates, retired from Russian Army, Jews who were Honorary Citizens (hereditary or private) (see https://www.jewishgen.org/Bessarabia/files/conferences/2012/EstateOfJewsinBessarabia.pdf), Jews citizens of other countries.

 

Yefim Kogan

JewishGen Bessarabia SIG Leader and Coordinator

 

 
jbonline1111@...
 

One of my grandfathers listed his origin as Poland though he came from this area.  Later, he called it Russia on his naturalization papers.  
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC
assaf.patir@...
 

The Yiddish term would be: דער תחום המושב, pronounced: Der t'hum ha-moy-shəv (from Hebrew תחום המושב)
Mark Jacobson
 

The Pale of Settlement was not Russian Poland. The Pale of Settlement was the area of the Russian Empire acquired from the Kingdom of Poland between the 1770s and 1790s that had a Jewish population. The designation allowed Jews to continue to live there but not move into other parts of Russia that had no Jews. The Pale includes much of the modern Ukraine (Kiev was the border), Lithuania, and Belarus. Russian Poland was also called Congress Poland and was not part of the Pale of Settlement, it was the semi-autonomous area of territory taken from Poland that, at least until uprisings in the 1860s, had some political and legal difference from the rest. I'm not aware that Jews living in the Pale would call it anything, they would be aware of where they lived.

Mark Jacobson
Past President, JGSPBCI
Gesher Galicia Board member
JRI-Poland Town Leader Boryslaw and Drohobycz
Boca Raton, FL

DOGULOV/DOVGALEVSKY - Tripolye/Vasilkov/Kiev Ukraine;
COHEN/KANA/KAHAN - Tripolye, Ukraine;
JACOBSON - Polotsk/Lepel, Belarus; KOBLENTZ - Polotsk, Belarus;
KAMERMAN/KAMMERMANN, WEGNER - Drohobycz, Galicia;
KOPPEL - Stebnik/Drohobycz, Galicia;
JACOBI - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia; ROTHLEIN - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia;
TUCHFELD - Rzeszow/Stryj/Lvov, Galicia; GOLDSTEIN - Ranizow, Galicia


On Saturday, January 18, 2020, 09:02:01 PM EST, Josephine Rosenblum <jorose@...> wrote:


   What would a Yiddish-speaking Jew who lived there have called this area?  Please give a transliteration for those of us who do not read Hebrew letters.  I know it was also called Russian-Poland in English, so how would this same Yiddish speaker have pronounced "Russian-Poland"?
   Because it is likely that others will find this information helpful, please post it for all to see.
   Thank you in advance.
Josephine Rosenblum
Cincinnati, OH
Searching: LESTZ in Seduva; ROSENBLUM or ROZENBLUM in Aleksotas; LEVINSON and ZEEMAN in Ponemon.  All in Lithuania.

Josephine Rosenblum
 

   What would a Yiddish-speaking Jew who lived there have called this area?  Please give a transliteration for those of us who do not read Hebrew letters.  I know it was also called Russian-Poland in English, so how would this same Yiddish speaker have pronounced "Russian-Poland"?
   Because it is likely that others will find this information helpful, please post it for all to see.
   Thank you in advance.
Josephine Rosenblum
Cincinnati, OH
Searching: LESTZ in Seduva; ROSENBLUM or ROZENBLUM in Aleksotas; LEVINSON and ZEEMAN in Ponemon.  All in Lithuania.
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