Buying false papers


YaleZuss@...
 

I've seen all the claims made in the various papers that Barbara Mannlein mentioned, and more, but the specific claims are all factually false, based on fundamental errors in logic, or are the result of methodological problems.  Before accepting the meme about "no involuntary name-changes" please wait for my paper to appear, read it, and think about what it says.  I think you'll realize that there is no basis for rejecting the name-change narratives, when you realize how they came to be.

Just to get you started, read the references in Barbara's message, and you will note that there are lots of claims that the involuntary name-change meme has been disproved repeatedly.  The proofs mentioned in these articles rarely have citations, so you won't be able to find them.  I went looking, and all I found was more claims that the proof is in the literature.  As it happens, I followed the one citation mentioned, to Vincent Cannato's book, back to its source, and found no proof there at all.  I contacted Prof. Cannato, who reported he had not researched this issue.  (His book is actually about how the experience of running Ellis Island established the American approach to bureaucracy.)  There are lots of assumptions made, but even when these assumptions turn out to be correct, they usually don't prove the point.

Readers may also find interesting that while Marian Smith was willing to discuss her role in propagating the "no involuntary name-changes" meme, she didn't answer direct questions about whether she had actually researched this issue or what proof she had on the matter.  And she had seen an early draft of my paper, sent by person or persons unknown, before I communicated with her, so why I was asking these questions was self-evident.

The notion that Inspectors were the agency for the involuntary name-changes is an assumption that has served as a straw-man on this matter.  None of the name-change narratives I collected included a claim that the inspector looked at their ancestor, and proclaimed, "I don't like you, do I'm going to call you Snotflubber," or "I like you, so you get to be Goldman."  Abandon this notion, and you'll see that the case against the narratives consists of basically nothing.  If there really is a case, perhaps someone would be so kind as to make it?

Yale Zussman, PhD


Evelyn Fabrikant
 

I posted once before about my father who tried to buy false papers from a Jewish forger is Sosnovitz after escaping from Russian army where he was impressed after escaping from German labor train from Sarny/Ukraine. Trying to find the names of small group he crossed Europe with -from Sosnovitz to Italy
I’m posting a photo of one man
My father is the one being choked
This is in Rome sometime after 1945 and before February 1948

Evelyn Fabrikant
Manalapan NJ


Sarah L Meyer
 

I need to clarify something about the dates.  My paternal ggf, the one who "bought" the false papers in Russia (I think the Odessa area) arrived in 1884, which was well before the opening of Ellis Island.  He came under the surname Meyer.  The rest of his family came in 1887.   My direct maternal family had no such stories and did come through Ellis Island.  

--
Sarah L Meyer
Georgetown TX
ANK(I)ER, BIGOS, KARMELEK, PERLSTADT, STOKFISZ, SZPIL(T)BAUM, Poland
BIRGARDOVSKY, EDELBERG, HITE (CHAIT), PERCHIK Russia (southern Ukraine) and some Latvia or Lithuania
https://www.sarahsgenies.com


Sally Bruckheimer
 

"I need to clarify something about the dates.  My paternal ggf, the one who "bought" the false papers in Russia (I think the Odessa area) arrived in 1884, which was well before the opening of Ellis Island.  He came under the surname Meyer. "

In 1884 nothing was needed to enter the US. What he probably bought was a ticket and perhaps the deceased Meyer's papers, as Russians were required to carry papers in Russia.

A cousin of mine came about the same time, and the family still has the ticket and internal passport. A gril's fiance was in the US, and he sent her a ticket to follow; but the girl died before leaving. My cousin's family bought the ticket (why waste the money), and the cousin left in the girl's place, with her papers. She left Russia and could have thrown the papers out, but all Russians didn't know that. Of course, once in the US, she used her own name.

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ


Sarah L Meyer
 

Hi Sally, Yes I was talking about papers to EXIT Russia, not to Enter the US.

Sarah

 

From: sallybruc via [] <sallybruc=yahoo.com@[]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 8:41 AM
To: Sarah L Meyer <sarahlmeyer@...>; main@...
Subject: Re: [JewishGen.org] Buying false papers

 

"I need to clarify something about the dates.  My paternal ggf, the one who "bought" the false papers in Russia (I think the Odessa area) arrived in 1884, which was well before the opening of Ellis Island.  He came under the surname Meyer. "

In 1884 nothing was needed to enter the US. What he probably bought was a ticket and perhaps the deceased Meyer's papers, as Russians were required to carry papers in Russia.

A cousin of mine came about the same time, and the family still has the ticket and internal passport. A gril's fiance was in the US, and he sent her a ticket to follow; but the girl died before leaving. My cousin's family bought the ticket (why waste the money), and the cousin left in the girl's place, with her papers. She left Russia and could have thrown the papers out, but all Russians didn't know that. Of course, once in the US, she used her own name.

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ


--
Sarah L Meyer
Georgetown TX
ANK(I)ER, BIGOS, KARMELEK, PERLSTADT, STOKFISZ, SZPIL(T)BAUM, Poland
BIRGARDOVSKY, EDELBERG, HITE (CHAIT), PERCHIK Russia (southern Ukraine) and some Latvia or Lithuania
https://www.sarahsgenies.com


Shelley Mitchell
 

It's been mentioned a few times that "Ellis Island wasn't open."  Please remember that Ellis Island opened up in 1892 but before that, Castle Island was open from 1855-1890.  Immigrants were received there too and there are records for Castle Island as well.

Shelley Mitchell
NYC
looking for TERNER, MOLDAUER, KINIGSBERG/KONIGSBERG, SCHONFELD, all Kolomyya, now Ukraine, TOPF, Koloyya and Radautz.


--
Shelley Mitchell 
NYC
searching KONIGSBERG/KINIGSBERG, TERNER, MOLDAUER, SCHONFELD - Kolomyya PLATZ - DELATYN. All Galicia. 


Eric Davis
 

Unfortunately, some of the papers were lost due to a file.  it is unknown if some may have been copied.