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A Brick Wall


janice1219@...
 

Help!  My g-mother Bertha was married in 1917 under the name Grutman.  Her parents are listed as Harry and Pauline Needleman.  Her birth was in Romania/Russia, and I've seen ages from 27 to 16 years at marriage.  I cannot find any confirmation of the family even arriving in the US, but came with the Americanized name of Groveman according to family lore.
Bertha married Max Langer and lived in the Bronx.  I am stopped in my tracks.  Does anyone have suggestions or directions for me?

Researching:
 Langer,Grutman, Weener, Cole (Sokolsky)


Hilary Henkin
 

What resources have you tried already?  Naturalization records?
Censuses?  It sounds like you have her marriage record - yes?  Was she
married in the Bronx - when?

Your ad lacks the details by which we can help better.

Hilary Henkin

P.S. And by the way, a more descriptive Subject line would improves your
chances for successful responses.  Include perhaps the surname, country,
something to narrow down what you're asking about.  Brick walls are
really common in this hobby.

-------------------------------------------------
Help!  My g-mother Bertha was married in 1917 under the name Grutman. 
Her parents are listed as Harry and Pauline Needleman. Her birth was in
Romania/Russia, and I've seen ages from 27 to 16 years at marriage.  I
cannot find any confirmation of the family even arriving in the US, but
came with the Americanized name of Groveman according to family lore.
Bertha married Max Langer and lived in the Bronx.  I am stopped in my
tracks.  Does anyone have suggestions or directions for me?

Researching:
 Langer,Grutman, Weener, Cole (Sokolsky)

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Renee Steinig
 

I followed these steps to search for Bertha:

1) Tried to narrow down likely birth year. (Her marriage record, Max's
naturalization petition, and censuses suggest c. 1900.)

2) Tried to narrow down likely year of arrival. (According to Max's
petition and censuses, it was c. 1914.)

3) Searched further for spellings of her name and found that her
marriage license application said GRUBMAN -- a more likely name than
GRUTMAN.

4) Searched on Steve Morse's Ellis Island
One-Step(https://stevemorse.org/ellis2/ellisgold.html) for someone who
was born within 5 years of 1900 and arrived within 5 years of 1914,
whose first name began with B and last name sounded like GRUBMAN. The
result: Brane GRIWMAN, 16, who arrived in January 1914. She was from
"Kliskewitz, Russia" and her mother was Perl. She was joining brother
Schmuel on Stanton St.

GRIWMAN (pronounced GRIVMAN) comes close to GROVEMAN and Perl is a
good match to the name Pauline, so I'm optimistic.

On Ancestry, this manifest is indexed as GRINMAN.

Kliskewitz could be the town that's now Klishkivtsi, Ukraine
(https://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/community.php?usbgn=-1042180).
Near Khotyn (Khotin), it was in Bessarabia, a region of the Russian
Empire, before WWI, and in Romania between the world wars.

A notation on Brane's manifest suggests that she herself was
naturalized c. 1943, but I couldn't find a corresponding record on
Ancestry.

Janice, do you know Bertha's Hebrew/Yiddish name? Unfortunately, it's
not on her gravestone, which is pictured on FindaGrave
(https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/205470442/bertha-langer) .

Renee

Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills (Long Island) NY
genmaven@...

Janice <janice1219@...> wrote:

<<My g-mother Bertha was married in 1917 under the name Grutman. Her
parents are listed as Harry and Pauline Needleman. Her birth was in
Romania/Russia, and I've seen ages from 27 to 16 years at marriage. I
cannot find any confirmation of the family even arriving in the US,
but came with the Americanized name of Groveman according to family
lore. Bertha married Max Langer and lived in the Bronx....>>


janice1219@...
 

I would love to give more and specific information, but I do not have any.  The naturalization record is listed under my g-father, with no specifics about Bertha.  The 1930 census is not much help, as there are several Max and Bertha Langers listed.
As for the marriage certificate, it has no information other than what I have listed, other than July 7, 1917.
No one is alive to ask.  I have seen two different spellings of Grutman/Grubman.  I do not know which is correct, because the family insists on Groveman (which I know is not the original).  Sorry I cannot give more information.