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Would a boy and a girl in the same family ever both be given essentially the same names? #ukraine #names

Judy Kaufman
 

I found on a Chabad.org page that "Two siblings should not share the same name. This to prevent the effect of an 'evil eye'" - so my question comes down to whether or not male and female versions of the same name are covered under this prohibition - due to the following:

I have a great-grandmother Nechama SCHIMAYATSKY from Chernihiv, Ukraine.   A person with a pretty close DNA connection to me has a great-grandfather Menachem SCHUMIATSKIJ from Baturyn, Chernihiv.  They were born a few years apart.  Nechama's father as listed on her death certificate is Moses; Menachem's father's name (from Menachem's gravestone) is Benyamin Moshe - so they could or could not be the same father.  We are assuming that Nechama and Menachem are the female and male versions of the same name.  If related names like this were never given to siblings, then we will conclude they were cousins.  If male and female siblings could be given essentially the same names, they could be siblings.

Judy Kaufman
Irvine, CA

ROSENBLUM (Brest)
FRIEDMAN (still figuring it out, likely Lithuania)
LEIDERMAN (Khashchuvatye)
KONETSPOLSK (Khaschuvatye)
WEINSTEIN (Sokolow-Malopolski)
RINENHEIM (Sokolow-Malopolski)
LUKA (Sokolow-Malopolski)
RASKIN (Chernihiv)
SCHIMAYATZSKY(Chernihiv)
 

Emily Olson
 

In my family, there was a gggf named Szmul Borenstajn, 1798-1846, from Luposzno, Poland, who was a rabbi and teacher and honest and otherwise fabulous man. He had at least 6 children. He had a grandson named for him after he died. The grandson, Samuel Borenstajn, had seven children. Three of the children had sons named Samuel Bernstein. One of the Sams was quite a bit older, but my father and his cousin, both Sam Bernsteins, were about a year apart in age. When the cousin turned 21, he changed his name to Gary Burns. He was thereinafter known as “The Gary Burns Sam Bernstein”.

Rodney Eisfelder
 

Judy,
Assume nothing. Personally, I wouldn't consider Menachem and Nechama to be the same name.
I know of several cases where siblings had the same name - usually they are named after a deceased grandparents and first one died very young, so the parents tried again to honour their late parent.
I have cases in my family where two sisters had the names Lina and Lena. Both survived to adulthood and married. This was in Germany in the 1820s and 30s.
My 5-greats grandmother was sometimes called Rachel, and sometimes Reigelene. She had a sister, about 3 years younger (unless I have the births mixed up), sometimes called Reigelene, and sometimes called Rachel. Both survived to adulthood and married. This was in Metz, France in the 1740s, and yes, I do have copies of their birth records (one says Reikle and the other Rachel).
But we only have the written records to go by - we don't know what they were called at home.

Sally Bruckheimer
 

You say 'Essentially' the same name. Menachem isn't Nechama, and a double name isn't the same as any single name. If the names are different, they are different, not 'essentially' the same.
 
Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ

Shelley Mitchell
 

My Galicia family followed the traditional approach. The first male born to each sibling would carry my deceased grandfather’s name. Since my mother only had daughters, as the first born, I carried his name. At the time, and long after, he was my only deceased grandparent.
--
Shelley Mitchell 
NYC
searching KONIGSBERG/KINIGSBERG, TERNER, MOLDAUER, SCHONFELD - Kolomyya PLATZ - DELATYN. All Galicia.

jbonline1111@...
 

FWIW, my grandfather and his uncle had the same name, according to my mother.  I can't say for sure, but I assume that they were both named after the same deceased relative. I don't have any names farther back than my gg, so I can't be sure.
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC

Kenneth Packer
 

Part of the answer to this question is the family’s Jewish “Affiliation.”  There was a famous Chernobyl Hasidic Rabbi, Menachum Nuchem.  Many followers of him named children after him.  On my family tree there are several who have his name, just as an honor to him, not because he was related.

Ken Packer

Washingtonville, NY

 

Researching: PEKER, PACKER, BECKER, PECKER from anywhere in the Ukraine, especially towns within a 200 mile radius for Kiev (Korostyshev, Zhitomer, Koristan, Brusilov, Khordorkev, Rudni). 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Shlomo Katz
 

I know many Orthodox families, my own and others, in which brothers and sisters have similar names, for example:
Menachem and Nechamah
Baruch and Bracha
Yehuda and Yehudis.

Shlomo Katz
Silver Spring MD

Eric Mack
 

One possibility is that one sibling was named after the ancestor, and the other sibling was born on or about the 9th of Av.  "Menachem" and "Nechamah" connote "comfort", and the month of Av is often called "Menachem Av".

On Sunday, March 29, 2020, 04:24:52 AM GMT+3, Shlomo Katz <shlomodkatz@...> wrote:


I know many Orthodox families, my own and others, in which brothers and sisters have similar names, for example:
Menachem and Nechamah
Baruch and Bracha
Yehuda and Yehudis.

Shlomo Katz
Silver Spring MD

fredelfruhman
 

A better male "equivalent" for Nechama would be Nachum.

Another reason for similar sibling names:   There was an ancestor named Chayim.  Descendants wanted to name their child after him, but the child was a girl, and they had no way of knowing if they would have another chance, so they named the girl Chayah.    Then, several years later, they had a boy,  Given this opportunity to "do it right", they called him Chayim.
--
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA

fredelfruhman
 

We are being told that some humor would not go amiss during these trying times.

This discussion (plus the recent topic of naming children after living relatives) reminds me of this tale:

A man runs to his rebbe, distraught, because he and his wife are having a bitter argument about which grandfather's name their new baby should receive.

The rebbe asks the man to bring his wife.  He then asks the man, "What was your father's name?"   "It was Moshe Yitzchok."

He turns to the wife, "And what was your father's name?"  "It was Moshe Yitzchok".

The rebbe, astounded, asks, "Then what is the problem?"

To which the wife replies, "My father was a rabbi, and his was a horse thief".

:) 
--
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA