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Trying to break a brick wall to find living relatives in the US... #general #usa #belarus

Gregory Engels
 

This might be the other way around as for the most other brick walls - I do know the historic ancestors here, but I have trouble to connect the dots to the present day.

My Great-Grandmother was a part of big jewish family of 14 siblings. They lived in Minsk, Belarus, Her 10 sisters and the youngest brother have all emigrated to the US and my GGF Basia stayed in Russia with two brothers. (actually my GGM was already "sitting on packed suitcases" when my GGF has left her, so she stayed with five kids in poverty and could not afford the travel). In the Soviet time, nobody in the family have talked about those american relatives, as this could get one in jail or even killed. So it was a big surprise as I interviewed the brother of my grandfather and he came up with this information - but he could not remember any names, even the one of his uncles that actually came to visit in the sixties. That was 12 years ago, and out of those 11 siblings I was able to find four and have met with descendants from two of them and had a little conversation with another one. But the fourth one I am stuck for over two years now.

So here it goes:

My GGGF: Peisakh Gordin b 1851, d 1942 Slaveni, Belarus.

his wife: Frieda Itkin. (he later in life had a second wife Galina)

His Children I know of:

  • Stayed in Russia:

    • Basia Gordin 1878-1942 - married Engelsgelb - my Great-Grandmother, five kids.

    • Isaac Gordin b1870 - d unknown, lived in Minsk, four kids.

    • Aaron Gorind b? - d.~1974, lived in Minsk, two kids.

  • Emmigrated to the US:

    • Isidore (Israel, Izzy) Gordon - b 15 Jul 1895, d 21 Mar 1991 in West Palm Beach, 2 Kids, I have met his grandchild.

    • Fannie (Feiga) Balberor b 15 May 1887, d 10 Mar 1950 Detroit, three kids, I have met her grandkids.

    • Mollie (Malke) Sirota b Apr 1889, d 06 Jan 1953 in LA, three kids, I have some contact on Facebook with her granddaughter.

    • six further sisters I do have nothing on. The birth register for Slaveni https://goo.gl/maps/gFDDFsU6qysgUQ4E8 has apparently not survived WWII.

so the last sister I know about and try to find out her descendants:

  • Rose (Rane, Rone, Rannie) Gordin born 1885 in Sloveni, Senno Uezd, Mogilew Gubernia, Russia died Sep 20 1969 - buried in Montefiore Cemetery, Queens, NY https://imgur.com/welEUxk

    • she married sometime in 1906 one Jacob Etkin b25 Jan 1887 in Minsk, Belarus, d 15 May 1953 in New York

    • Jacob arrived in the US 24 Jun 1906 under the name Yankel Itkin, he stated that he would be joining his Father (according to jacobs gavestone his name would be Abraham) with c/o of a Max Mindlin, Red Bank, NY. Because he had no money, he was detained, and the record list Max Mindlin as his uncle. Manifest https://imgur.com/19cRwfB Detained list https://imgur.com/PtSFPbd

    • Rose arrived 24 Jun 1907, exactly one year after Jacob, passenger name Rone Itkin (row 18) https://imgur.com/jaqELTL - she too was detained and picked up by her husband (row 8) https://imgur.com/YmW8y9z - his address being 165 East Broadway, NY

    • 19 Jan 1909 their daughter Annie (or Anna) Atkin was born https://imgur.com/2RAQfg5 - address 653 Sackman St, NY

    • 1910 Census Jake, Rosie and Annie Etkin - 401 Powell St, Brooklyn, NY https://imgur.com/YOQ0hGT

    • 18 Jan 1912 their daughter Florence Etkin is born in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. https://imgur.com/qql2ucT - Florence died 29 Dec 1975

    • 1915 NY State Census Jacob, Jennie (!), Annie and Flora - they are back in NY: 226 Livonia Ave. https://imgur.com/jwK1Kht

    • Nov 1917 their daughter Sylvia is born in New York

    • Nov 1919 their daughter Lillian is born in New York

    • 1920 Census: Etkin, Jacob, Rose, Anna, Florence and Lillian - Address 1514 St Marks Ave, Brooklyn. https://imgur.com/iyZZB9J

    • 1925 NY State Census surname Atkin, same address 1514 St Marks Ave https://imgur.com/GpH7M9R

    • 1930 Census: https://imgur.com/HTYKy4I and https://imgur.com/YM83YQ3 456 Herzl Street, Brooklyn

    • 1940 Census: They still all live together - address 408 E95th St (that's just a couple of hoses away from Rose's brother Isadore) https://imgur.com/0qtvzTB

    • Anna have married sometime Hyman Lastman https://imgur.com/O8kpe3Q

Now, the headstone of Jacob and Rose says that they had grandchildren. I had wrote an email to Montefiore cemetery once using their contact form in june 2019 and once using the email of their director jan 2020, asking them if they would have a next of kin information or a obituary on file, but never got an answer. (I had some success in writing to the cemeteries before - ifact the first hint of Rose was from the cemetery file from Fanny Balberor (died 1950) that listed in the next of kin list: "Str Mrs Jacob ATKIN NYC", and it took me some time to find everything linked above in this message). 

Any ideas where to dig now?

best regards to all you who are in quarantine, as we are here in Germany. 
Gregory Engels

Diane Jacobs
 

Gregory, 

Based on my past experiences with cemeteries. You need to call them ask if they have name and address for next of kin.
If they do, then ask if they will forward a letter from you.  They will only tell you what state (assuming it is the US).

If someone does not want to be helpful, call them back the next day when someone new is there.

In my experience, Jewish cemeteries are usually helpful. If you don't get what you want the first time, try again


Diane Jacobs 
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Gregory Engels <Gregory.Engels@...>
Date: 3/29/20 6:44 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@...
Subject: [JewishGen.org] Trying to break a brick wall to find living relatives in the US... #general #usa #belarus

This might be the other way around as for the most other brick walls - I do know the historic ancestors here, but I have trouble to connect the dots to the present day.

My Great-Grandmother was a part of big jewish family of 14 siblings. They lived in Minsk, Belarus, Her 10 sisters and the youngest brother have all emigrated to the US and my GGF Basia stayed in Russia with two brothers. (actually my GGM was already "sitting on packed suitcases" when my GGF has left her, so she stayed with five kids in poverty and could not afford the travel). In the Soviet time, nobody in the family have talked about those american relatives, as this could get one in jail or even killed. So it was a big surprise as I interviewed the brother of my grandfather and he came up with this information - but he could not remember any names, even the one of his uncles that actually came to visit in the sixties. That was 12 years ago, and out of those 11 siblings I was able to find four and have met with descendants from two of them and had a little conversation with another one. But the fourth one I am stuck for over two years now.

So here it goes:

My GGGF: Peisakh Gordin b 1851, d 1942 Slaveni, Belarus.

his wife: Frieda Itkin. (he later in life had a second wife Galina)

His Children I know of:

  • Stayed in Russia:

    • Basia Gordin 1878-1942 - married Engelsgelb - my Great-Grandmother, five kids.

    • Isaac Gordin b1870 - d unknown, lived in Minsk, four kids.

    • Aaron Gorind b? - d.~1974, lived in Minsk, two kids.

  • Emmigrated to the US:

    • Isidore (Israel, Izzy) Gordon - b 15 Jul 1895, d 21 Mar 1991 in West Palm Beach, 2 Kids, I have met his grandchild.

    • Fannie (Feiga) Balberor b 15 May 1887, d 10 Mar 1950 Detroit, three kids, I have met her grandkids.

    • Mollie (Malke) Sirota b Apr 1889, d 06 Jan 1953 in LA, three kids, I have some contact on Facebook with her granddaughter.

    • six further sisters I do have nothing on. The birth register for Slaveni https://goo.gl/maps/gFDDFsU6qysgUQ4E8 has apparently not survived WWII.

so the last sister I know about and try to find out her descendants:

  • Rose (Rane, Rone, Rannie) Gordin born 1885 in Sloveni, Senno Uezd, Mogilew Gubernia, Russia died Sep 20 1969 - buried in Montefiore Cemetery, Queens, NY https://imgur.com/welEUxk

    • she married sometime in 1906 one Jacob Etkin b25 Jan 1887 in Minsk, Belarus, d 15 May 1953 in New York

    • Jacob arrived in the US 24 Jun 1906 under the name Yankel Itkin, he stated that he would be joining his Father (according to jacobs gavestone his name would be Abraham) with c/o of a Max Mindlin, Red Bank, NY. Because he had no money, he was detained, and the record list Max Mindlin as his uncle. Manifest https://imgur.com/19cRwfB Detained list https://imgur.com/PtSFPbd

    • Rose arrived 24 Jun 1907, exactly one year after Jacob, passenger name Rone Itkin (row 18) https://imgur.com/jaqELTL - she too was detained and picked up by her husband (row 8) https://imgur.com/YmW8y9z - his address being 165 East Broadway, NY

    • 19 Jan 1909 their daughter Annie (or Anna) Atkin was born https://imgur.com/2RAQfg5 - address 653 Sackman St, NY

    • 1910 Census Jake, Rosie and Annie Etkin - 401 Powell St, Brooklyn, NY https://imgur.com/YOQ0hGT

    • 18 Jan 1912 their daughter Florence Etkin is born in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. https://imgur.com/qql2ucT - Florence died 29 Dec 1975

    • 1915 NY State Census Jacob, Jennie (!), Annie and Flora - they are back in NY: 226 Livonia Ave. https://imgur.com/jwK1Kht

    • Nov 1917 their daughter Sylvia is born in New York

    • Nov 1919 their daughter Lillian is born in New York

    • 1920 Census: Etkin, Jacob, Rose, Anna, Florence and Lillian - Address 1514 St Marks Ave, Brooklyn. https://imgur.com/iyZZB9J

    • 1925 NY State Census surname Atkin, same address 1514 St Marks Ave https://imgur.com/GpH7M9R

    • 1930 Census: https://imgur.com/HTYKy4I and https://imgur.com/YM83YQ3 456 Herzl Street, Brooklyn

    • 1940 Census: They still all live together - address 408 E95th St (that's just a couple of hoses away from Rose's brother Isadore) https://imgur.com/0qtvzTB

    • Anna have married sometime Hyman Lastman https://imgur.com/O8kpe3Q

Now, the headstone of Jacob and Rose says that they had grandchildren. I had wrote an email to Montefiore cemetery once using their contact form in june 2019 and once using the email of their director jan 2020, asking them if they would have a next of kin information or a obituary on file, but never got an answer. (I had some success in writing to the cemeteries before - ifact the first hint of Rose was from the cemetery file from Fanny Balberor (died 1950) that listed in the next of kin list: "Str Mrs Jacob ATKIN NYC", and it took me some time to find everything linked above in this message). 

Any ideas where to dig now?

best regards to all you who are in quarantine, as we are here in Germany. 
Gregory Engels


--
Diane Jacobs

Diane Jacobs
 

Also , did you know that some Belarus records could in in JRI-Poland and All Lithuania Database on jewishgen.org

Diane 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Gregory Engels <Gregory.Engels@...>
Date: 3/29/20 6:44 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@...
Subject: [JewishGen.org] Trying to break a brick wall to find living relatives in the US... #general #usa #belarus

This might be the other way around as for the most other brick walls - I do know the historic ancestors here, but I have trouble to connect the dots to the present day.

My Great-Grandmother was a part of big jewish family of 14 siblings. They lived in Minsk, Belarus, Her 10 sisters and the youngest brother have all emigrated to the US and my GGF Basia stayed in Russia with two brothers. (actually my GGM was already "sitting on packed suitcases" when my GGF has left her, so she stayed with five kids in poverty and could not afford the travel). In the Soviet time, nobody in the family have talked about those american relatives, as this could get one in jail or even killed. So it was a big surprise as I interviewed the brother of my grandfather and he came up with this information - but he could not remember any names, even the one of his uncles that actually came to visit in the sixties. That was 12 years ago, and out of those 11 siblings I was able to find four and have met with descendants from two of them and had a little conversation with another one. But the fourth one I am stuck for over two years now.

So here it goes:

My GGGF: Peisakh Gordin b 1851, d 1942 Slaveni, Belarus.

his wife: Frieda Itkin. (he later in life had a second wife Galina)

His Children I know of:

  • Stayed in Russia:

    • Basia Gordin 1878-1942 - married Engelsgelb - my Great-Grandmother, five kids.

    • Isaac Gordin b1870 - d unknown, lived in Minsk, four kids.

    • Aaron Gorind b? - d.~1974, lived in Minsk, two kids.

  • Emmigrated to the US:

    • Isidore (Israel, Izzy) Gordon - b 15 Jul 1895, d 21 Mar 1991 in West Palm Beach, 2 Kids, I have met his grandchild.

    • Fannie (Feiga) Balberor b 15 May 1887, d 10 Mar 1950 Detroit, three kids, I have met her grandkids.

    • Mollie (Malke) Sirota b Apr 1889, d 06 Jan 1953 in LA, three kids, I have some contact on Facebook with her granddaughter.

    • six further sisters I do have nothing on. The birth register for Slaveni https://goo.gl/maps/gFDDFsU6qysgUQ4E8 has apparently not survived WWII.

so the last sister I know about and try to find out her descendants:

  • Rose (Rane, Rone, Rannie) Gordin born 1885 in Sloveni, Senno Uezd, Mogilew Gubernia, Russia died Sep 20 1969 - buried in Montefiore Cemetery, Queens, NY https://imgur.com/welEUxk

    • she married sometime in 1906 one Jacob Etkin b25 Jan 1887 in Minsk, Belarus, d 15 May 1953 in New York

    • Jacob arrived in the US 24 Jun 1906 under the name Yankel Itkin, he stated that he would be joining his Father (according to jacobs gavestone his name would be Abraham) with c/o of a Max Mindlin, Red Bank, NY. Because he had no money, he was detained, and the record list Max Mindlin as his uncle. Manifest https://imgur.com/19cRwfB Detained list https://imgur.com/PtSFPbd

    • Rose arrived 24 Jun 1907, exactly one year after Jacob, passenger name Rone Itkin (row 18) https://imgur.com/jaqELTL - she too was detained and picked up by her husband (row 8) https://imgur.com/YmW8y9z - his address being 165 East Broadway, NY

    • 19 Jan 1909 their daughter Annie (or Anna) Atkin was born https://imgur.com/2RAQfg5 - address 653 Sackman St, NY

    • 1910 Census Jake, Rosie and Annie Etkin - 401 Powell St, Brooklyn, NY https://imgur.com/YOQ0hGT

    • 18 Jan 1912 their daughter Florence Etkin is born in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. https://imgur.com/qql2ucT - Florence died 29 Dec 1975

    • 1915 NY State Census Jacob, Jennie (!), Annie and Flora - they are back in NY: 226 Livonia Ave. https://imgur.com/jwK1Kht

    • Nov 1917 their daughter Sylvia is born in New York

    • Nov 1919 their daughter Lillian is born in New York

    • 1920 Census: Etkin, Jacob, Rose, Anna, Florence and Lillian - Address 1514 St Marks Ave, Brooklyn. https://imgur.com/iyZZB9J

    • 1925 NY State Census surname Atkin, same address 1514 St Marks Ave https://imgur.com/GpH7M9R

    • 1930 Census: https://imgur.com/HTYKy4I and https://imgur.com/YM83YQ3 456 Herzl Street, Brooklyn

    • 1940 Census: They still all live together - address 408 E95th St (that's just a couple of hoses away from Rose's brother Isadore) https://imgur.com/0qtvzTB

    • Anna have married sometime Hyman Lastman https://imgur.com/O8kpe3Q

Now, the headstone of Jacob and Rose says that they had grandchildren. I had wrote an email to Montefiore cemetery once using their contact form in june 2019 and once using the email of their director jan 2020, asking them if they would have a next of kin information or a obituary on file, but never got an answer. (I had some success in writing to the cemeteries before - ifact the first hint of Rose was from the cemetery file from Fanny Balberor (died 1950) that listed in the next of kin list: "Str Mrs Jacob ATKIN NYC", and it took me some time to find everything linked above in this message). 

Any ideas where to dig now?

best regards to all you who are in quarantine, as we are here in Germany. 
Gregory Engels


--
Diane Jacobs

Linda Kelley
 

I just wanted to say that children were sometimes enumerated in their parents' homes, and were also enumerated in other households or locations. The parents may have misunderstood the directions, or the Census was taken on different days.
Linda Wolfe Kelley
Portland, OR, USA

Renee Steinig
 

Gregory Engels <Gregory.Engels@...> asked about the daughters of Rose GORDIN (1885-1969) and Jacob ETKIN (1887-1953) of New York -- Annie LASTMAN (1909-1993), Florence ETKIN (1912-1975), Sylvia (Nov 1917-?), and Lillian (Nov. 1919-?).

In Ancestry's New York birth index, I found a Sylvia ETKIN born 19 Jan. 1918 in Brooklyn, then searched further for a Sylvia with that birth date. Found in the California death index:

Sylvia ALBERT
Social Security #: 088124395 [a NY Social Security number]
Birth Date: 19 Jan 1918
Death Date: 22 Jun 1968
Death Place: Alameda
Mother's Maiden Name: GORDON

An obituary found on newspapers.com confirms that she's the right person. It mentions husband George J. ALBERT and children Paul, Robert and Frederick ALBERT, all of Oakland CA; mother Rose ETKIN of Floral Park NY; sisters Ann LASTMAN, Florence ETKIN, and Lillian TEITZMAN, all of New York. Sylvia died in San Leandro CA and is buried at Home of Eternity Cemetery in Oakland.

Sylvia's three sons' births are listed in Ancestry's California Birth Index (https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/5247/). Search for surname ALBERT and mother's name ATKIN.

This is probably Lillian:

born 6 Nov 1919 Brooklyn
married Benjamin TEITZMAN (1918-1994)
died 14 Apr 2002
buried Cedar Park Cemetery, New Jersey

Listings on BeenVerified.com suggest a connection to Peter Alan TEITZMAN (1943- 2003). He's on a tree on Ancestry; try writing the tree's submitter.

Renee

Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills NY
genmaven@...

Stephanie LaRose Lewison
 

I second the suggestion to call the cemetery and try again another day if the person is not helpful.
Finding current relatives has proven difficult for me too.
Have you tried any DNA testing to find current relatives?
Have you tried randomly Facebook friending or messaging people with the last names you are looking for?
How about internet searches for those names?

airbair@...
 

I am the transcription coordinator for the SF Bay Area Jewish Genealogical Society, and we have records from the Home of Eternity Cemetery location cards.

Here is the data for Sylvia ALBERT:
Cemetery record number: 958
Address: 4859 Dunkirk Ave., Oakland, CA
Age: 50
Date of death: 22 Jun 1968, in Oakland
Undertaker: Guerrero & Serramur
Date of burial: 24 Jun 1968
Rabbi: Zucker
Plot 2000, Grave 24
Other Name on record: George ALBERT, same address
Linked to cemetery record 3209, George ALBERT

Data on George ALBERT:
Cemetery record number: 3209
Address: 3444 Capella Ln., Alameda, CA
Date of birth: 29 Jun 1919
Date of death: 9 Oct 2007, in San Leandro, CA
Undertaker: Colonial Chapel
Date of burial: 12 Oct 2007
Rabbi: Alan Bennett
Plot 2000, Grave 24B
Other Name on record: Paul ALBERT, same address
Linked to cemetery record 958, Sylvia ALBERT

There is another couple with last name ALBERT:  Nathan ALBERT and Rose ALBERT.  They are in linked records in the cemetery locator cards, but there is no identified connection to Sylvia and George.  If you want the information on Nathan and Rose, please let me know.

Jeff Lewy
Transcriptions, SFBAJGS

alan moskowitz
 

Perhaps consider taking an entirely different approach via DNA technology.  Do you have access to the DNA test kits such as those sold by Ancestry and 23 and me?  In our extended  family a second cousin did this using the Ancestry kit and found several likely matches and all were found to be  related to us.  Discovered and previously unknown to all of us was that our great grandfather had a brother in New York and had a family.  I believe the connections are made possible through the Ancestry website in a manner that preserves your identity until you allow others to contact you.  Contact was made with  the 'other side' of the family and we were able to fill in some of the missing pieces.    Wish you success on your journey.
Alan

Max Heffler
 

This past year or so DNA testing is starting to pay off as I have now been able to add a number of missing branches and connect with more family.

 

From: main@... [mailto:main@...] On Behalf Of alan moskowitz via Groups.Jewishgen.Org
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 8:20 AM
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [JewishGen.org] Trying to break a brick wall to find living relatives in the US... #general #usa #belarus

 

Perhaps consider taking an entirely different approach via DNA technology.  Do you have access to the DNA test kits such as those sold by Ancestry and 23 and me?  In our extended  family a second cousin did this using the Ancestry kit and found several likely matches and all were found to be  related to us.  Discovered and previously unknown to all of us was that our great grandfather had a brother in New York and had a family.  I believe the connections are made possible through the Ancestry website in a manner that preserves your identity until you allow others to contact you.  Contact was made with  the 'other side' of the family and we were able to fill in some of the missing pieces.    Wish you success on your journey.
Alan


--

Web sites I manage - Personal home page, Greater Houston Jewish Genealogical Society, Woodside Civic Club, Skala, Ukraine KehilalLink, Joniskelis, Lithuania KehilaLink, and pet volunteer project - Yizkor book project: www.texsys.com/websites.html

Gregory Engels
 

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 05:43 PM, Renee Steinig wrote:
In Ancestry's New York birth index, I found a Sylvia ETKIN born 19 Jan. 1918 in Brooklyn, then searched further for a Sylvia with that birth date. Found in the California death index
Wow! I had found the index entry in the Ancestry's NY birth index, but since I could not be sure about it, I had set it aside. I have not come up with the Idea of searching for all Sylvias worldwide with that birth date! And luckily her obituary is very verbose, as if it was written for the need of future genealogists in mind. 

Thank you so much!

Gregory

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