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Illegitimate births circa 1840 #germany
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rich.meyersburg@...
I recently had some birth notices translated from old written German by members of this SIG, and I am very grateful. However in two of the instances, both from Hebenshausen in 1840, the births were described as unehelich, which was translated as illegitimate.
For one of the births, the father acknowledged as father of the children (anerkannt als Vater des Kind) and the child was listed as having the father's surname. In the second birth, in the same town and to girls with the same surname, less than a week apart, the child was listed as unehelich, and the father's name was not provided. My questions are this: 1. Was this common? 2. Was this due to a difficulty in obtaining services for either a religious or civil marriage? (in the first instance) 3. How was this usually treated by the community? Thank you for your assistance. Rich Meyersburg Laurel MD rich.meyersburg@... |
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Susan&David
There were, at times, civil laws that only allowed the eldest Jewish
son to marry. The religious community recognized the marriage as
legitimate but not the civil authorities.
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David Rosen Boston, MA On 5/22/2020 8:41 PM,
rich.meyersburg@... wrote:
I recently had some birth notices translated from old written German by members of this SIG, and I am very grateful. However in two of the instances, both from Hebenshausen in 1840, the births were described as unehelich, which was translated as illegitimate. |
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Reuven Stern
Please note that "unehelich" may mean illegitimate, but it also means out of wedlock
-- Reuven Stern, Kfar Vradim Israel |
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James <james.castellan@...>
In this period the German peasant class couples often had several births out of wedlock during a very long courtship because there was a significant fee to get legally married. Once the couple was able to afford the fee and married, their children became "legitimate". My Catholic German research in this time period had several couples where the Priest would go back and note them as legitimate in the records.
James Castellan Rose Valley, PA |
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Ernst-Peter Winter
Please note that "unehelich" may mean illegitimate, but itSorry, what's the difference between "illegitimate" and "out of wedlock"? I understand "unehelich" to mean a child born outside a legally constituted marriage. This means that the child has no rights against the father, e.g. it cannot inherit anything. In the case of a subsequent marriage, the father must expressly recognise the child as having been produced by him in order to grant him the same rights as the other children of this marriage. Ernst-Peter Winter, Münster, Hesse |
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rich.meyersburg@...
Thank you very much.I can understand why my ancestors wanted to come to the US.
Rich |
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Peter Cohen
I do not know if it applies to 1840, but there were times when authorities in some German cities attempted to control the Jewish population by only allowing the oldest son to marry. This was largely unsuccessful because the Jews were not terribly concerned about civil marriage, as long as they were religiously married. But, this resulted in a lot of "illegitimate" births because the parents were not permitted to marry in a civil ceremony.
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David Lewin
Are you certain about "only allowing the oldest son to marry" ? I know of only the head of the family and the oldest son allowed to earn a living, but never heard of marriage prohibitioj
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David Lewin, London <david@...> At 18:55 23/05/2020, peter.cohen@... wrote: I do not know if it applies to 1840, but there were times when authorities in some German cities attempted to control the Jewish population by only allowing the oldest son to marry. This was largely unsuccessful because the Jews were not terribly concerned about civil marriage, as long as they were religiously married. But, this resulted in a lot of "illegitimate" births because the parents were not permitted to marry in a civil ceremony. |
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Roger Lustig
Regarding births in 1840s Germany that were entered as illegitimate,
Rich Meyersburg asks: 1. Was this common? 2. Was this due to a difficulty in obtaining services for either a religious or civil marriage? (in the first instance) 3. How was this usually treated by the community? 1: Yes. In my experience, between 5 and 8 percent of births were to unwed mothers. 2: I don't think civil marriage existed in 1840s Hessen-Kassel, which is where Hebenshausen was located. Among Jews, obtaining services was not a problem, as any Jewish male could officiate, and in towns without a rabbi, the schoolteacher or shochet or cantor (often all the same person) was called upon for such tasks. In other towns, the head of the congregation would officiate. 3: Unwed Jewish mothers weren't shunned, generally. Some later married, some did not. Children of unwed mothers were treated like other children. Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ Research coordinator, GerSIG |
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Eva Lawrence
Laws about only allowing the oldest son to marry were certainly believed
to be in existence in some areas and in certain jurisdictions, whether that was the case or not. It's the only explanation I can think of for the fact that my 4xgreat grandfather and his older brother lied about their relative ages on the former's civil marriage record in 1832 in Bonn, Regierungsbezirk Coeln. which had become part of Prussia in 1815, after years of checkered history and French rule. Anselm Ungar brought a one-year-old child into the marriage, while his older brother Leopold, a witness on the record, was still unmarried. The discrepancy caused all sorts of difficulties on the family's later civil records, and I've not yet disentangled all the facts about the whole episode. Eva Lawrence St Albans, UK -- Eva Lawrence St Albans, UK. |
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Arline and Sidney Sachs
My g.g.grandfather wrote of his experience in the early and mid 1800s in Kastel (across the river from Mainz). When he wanted to get married in 1829 he had to get permission from the town, community and state. To do this he had to prove he would not be a burden on the community. He was serving as a Chazen and had to have the entire community sign an official paper saying that they would continue to support him. ( I have this document if anyone wants to see it.) One member of the small community did not sign it. My ancestor wrote in his journal that he returned to his room and cried, but the owner assured him that they would make sure he would get it. Much later the mayor asked the person who would not sign, why he had not signed. My ancestor wrote "He has yet to answer the mayor".
Many years later when his daughter wanted to get married, he made the comment about his future son-in-law, who lived in Bischofsheim (now part of Mainz). " Thank goodness he received his permission to marry." Remember the early 1800s was a time of great immigration of Germans to America - both Jewish and Christians. Arline and Sidney Sachs <sachs@...> Signing your full name to all messages to the JGDG furthers the spirit of community and mutual assistance that our group depends on. |
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Frank Schulaner
One assumes the civil authorities had their reasons/excuses for the seemingly erratic laws on Jewish marriages that we've been reading about this weekend. I suspect, though, the basic not-always-subconscious rationale was "Just to show you Jews who's boss."
But I wonder about the eldest-son-only rule you mention: Whether the law's intent was practical, to increase the number of the "illegitimate" children of the other sons, children unable legally to inherit their father's property. Giving the government a chance to grab "intestate" property. |
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Ernst-Peter Winter
I think it is very dangerous to judge rules and laws without
knowledge of the exact wording, time and territory, or to draw general conclusions from them. The beginning of the 19th century in particular brought very great upheavals in Germany - from the end of serfdom to the entitlement to certain rights. Not to forget the changes brought about by the French Revolution and the rule of Napoleon. It should be noted that the individual countries of Germany were autonomous and had their own legislation. A completely different question is how the local authorities applied the laws and whether it was possible to appeal against them to a higher instance and perhaps obtain justice there. Generalizations often lead to prejudices that are then difficult to dispel. The situation of the Jews in Germany has certainly improved more slowly during this period than that of the rest of the ordinary population. And as always: some worked for it, others against it. In my place of residence, a Jewish woman left money to poor Christians in her will. She said that she had also received much good things from Christians. Certainly an exception - but also a reality. Ernst-Peter Winter, Münster, Hesse |
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Ernst-Peter Winter
My g.g.grandfather ...I would be glad to get a scan of the document. Unfortunately, such documents are very rare in the municipal archives, although they were certainly frequent. BTW: Since the Rhine became the border between Hesse and Rhineland-Palatinate, all suburbs on the right side of the Rhine were separated from Mainz. The stations in these villages kept their names, so that the railway station is still Mainz-Bischofsheim. Ernst-Peter Winter, Münster, Hesse |
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Paul King
Limiting fertility was often a state or municipal (local) policy aimed at economically dependent or religiously undesirable populations and should not be considered as solely aimed at controlling Jewish demographics. Nevertheless, the Familiant Decree, introduced in Bohemia and Moravia in 1726 allowing only the eldest son of Jewish parents to marry, remained in force with various attenuations for some 125 years, and was honored more in the breach than in its observance. During and after the Thirty Years War (1618-1648), Protestants faced marriage constraints in Catholic jurisdictions; throughout the "second serfdom" (16th-18th c.) serfs required highly-priced marriage licenses and faced monetary penalties, incarceration and deportation for marrying illegally. Political authorities sought to guard against pauperization of potential families without means. By and large, these punitive measures acted as a deterrent to marriage. Amongst the Jewish population, far less so, despite intermittent calls by guilds to expel Jewish competition.
Paul KING Jerusalem |
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ed.rosenblatt@...
This was very common. Weddings performed by Rabbis were not recognized by the government. I have found several birth records of my ancestors in Galicia that are all noted as illegitimate.
Ed Rosenblatt |
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