#### From Which Viewpoint Are Cousins Named?

Carl Kaplan

I have never found an answer for which viewpoint is used to determine a connection to a cousin. I recently discovered the great-granddaughter of my great-great-grandfather. From my standpoint I would think she would be my 3rd cousin, once removed. However, Ancestry says she is my 2nd cousin, once removed (up a generation). That seems to be from her viewpoint. I then checked the great-granddaughter of my grandfather. This time Ancestry looked at it from my viewpoint, and labeled her my 1st cousin, once removed. (down a generation). Can someone clarify, as I have always wondered. Thanks.

Carl Kaplan
Kaplan, Edelsen (Minsk)
Steinberg (Lviv)
Hoffert, Bienenstock (Kolbuzowa)

Phil Schwarz

You and a relative are Nth cousins K times removed, where your common ancestor is N+1 generations before the older of the two of you, and the two of you are K generations apart.  So for example, first cousins share grandparents (2 generations before both of you, so N = 1, and you're the same generation, so K = 0: first cousins 0 times removed).  Second cousins share great-grandparents (3 generations back, so N = 2).
The great-granddaughter of your great-great-grandfather is 3 generations after your great-great-grandfather, and you're 4 generations after him.  So N+1 = 3, and K = 4 - 3 = 1, so you are 2nd cousins (N = 2), once removed.
These relationships are symmetric, because N is always calculated from the older-generation relative.

Phil Schwarz
Schwarz/Schwartz/Szwarc, Katz (Grzymalów, Galicia)
Schwebel, Kallenberg, Klein, Schramm, Wolfmann (Czortków, Galicia; Neulengbach and Vienna, Austria)
Rosenthal, Elkan, Block (Wetzlar, Germany)
Heymann (Cologne, Germany; Amsterdam, Netherlands)
A product of a mixed marriage: my father was a Galizianer, my mother a Yekke :-).

Russ Maurer

Each additional generation makes the relationship more distant or further "removed" to use the lingo. Thus if two people (A & B) are, say 2nd cousins, then A's child and B are 2nd cousins, once removed.

Russ Maurer

Deborah Blinder

Always count the generations from the common ancestor to the  descendants, not from the descendants to the common ancestor. As long as the descendants' generations are parallel, you'll be counting first/second/third/etc. cousins. Once the generations stop being parallel, you start counting once/twice/etc. removed.
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Deborah Blankenberg (JewishGen ID #613395)
Lodi, CA
dtblankenberg@...
Researching BLOCH/BLOCK (Germany to New York, Colombia and Missouri), BLINDER (Kishinev to New York via Poland? and Paris), KUSHER/KUSZER (Lodz vicinity to New York via Paris), GOLDSCHMIDT (Germany)

Christine Hills

I use this simple way to remember:
First cousins share Grandparents
Second cousins share Great Grandparents
Third cousins share Great Great Grand parents
Fourth cousins share 3x Great Grand parents etc.
For times removed count the generations from the above
e.g. My father's first cousin is my first cousin once removed
His second cousin is my second cousin once removed
My Grandfathers first cousin is my first cousin twice removed etc.

Christine Hills Dublin Ireland tinasusanamy@...

Sarah L Meyer

Count the generations back to the siblings on EACH side so if on your side it is 4 and on the other side it is 3, the smaller number is the cousin - in this case 3 and the positive difference is the removed (4-3)=1.  It does not matter whose number is smaller.  So in this example the relationship would be third cousins once removed.  If the numbers were 2 and 5, it would be second cousins 3 times removed.

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 09:30 PM, <carl.kaplan@...> wrote:
I have never found an answer for which viewpoint is used to determine a connection to a cousin. I recently discovered the great-granddaughter of my great-great-grandfather. From my standpoint I would think she would be my 3rd cousin, once removed. However, Ancestry says she is my 2nd cousin, once removed (up a generation). That seems to be from her viewpoint. I then checked the great-granddaughter of my grandfather. This time Ancestry looked at it from my viewpoint, and labeled her my 1st cousin, once removed. (down a generation). Can someone clarify, as I have always wondered. Thanks.

Carl Kaplan
Kaplan, Edelsen (Minsk)
Steinberg (Lviv)
Hoffert, Bienenstock (Kolbuzowa)

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Sarah L Meyer
Georgetown TX
ANK(I)ER, BIGOS, KARMELEK, PERLSTADT, STOKFISZ, SZPIL(T)BAUM, Poland
BIRGARDOVSKY, EDELBERG, HITE (CHAIT), PERCHIK Russia (southern Ukraine) and some Latvia or Lithuania
https://www.sarahsgenies.com

Joyaa Antares

Sarah Meyer writes, “Count the generations back to the siblings on EACH side so if on your side it is 4 and on the other side it is 3, the smaller number is the cousin - in this case 3 and the positive difference is the removed (4-3)=1.  It does not matter whose number is smaller.  So in this example the relationship would be third cousins once removed (my underline).  If the numbers were 2 and 5, it would be second cousins 3 times removed.

As I read Carl’s original post, if he counts back to the siblings as Sarah suggests (and would give the correct answer), then it is 3 on Carl’s side and 2 on the other.  As ancestry correctly stated, second cousins once removed (2C1R).

Joyaa ANTARES
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

David Brostoff

On Jun 13, 2020, at 4:02 PM, carl.kaplan via groups.jewishgen.org <carl.kaplan=ymail.com@...> wrote:

Ancestry says she is my 2nd cousin, once removed (up a generation). That seems to be from her viewpoint. I then checked the great-granddaughter of my grandfather. This time Ancestry looked at it from my viewpoint, and labeled her my 1st cousin, once removed.
Others have answered your question, but just so I understand, where is Ancestry giving you this information?

David

Carl Kaplan

ANSWER: Thank you for all your answers, public and private. I understand the concept of naming the cousins. The question was around the issue of what to do when it is asymmetric, which is always the case in the "removed" cousins. Whether one counts up or down in regards to the common ancestor, the number is different, depending on which cousin one counts from. Therefore, it comes down to (as many of you stated):
##### It is always calculated from the older-generation relative.Thanks again for all your input.

Carl Kaplan

Good question. Click on the person in your tree, then click on Profile. Their relation is under the person's Name, Birth and Death information at the top, such as 1st cousin 2x removed.

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