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Ballasagyarmat: what census records are there? #hungary


emmabcole@...
 

I would love to know what pre 1850 records from Ballasagyarmat are available and searchable, thank you so much. I am researching my Weisz family and trying to work out which Weisz residents are related to my branch. Thank you for any help you could offer me (in my branch Fani Taub (born 1815) and Jakab Weisz (born 1812) had sons Lipot, Adolf and Armin and maybe others born before 1850 - were they for example the parents of Abraham who married Regine Hersch?
Best wishes,
Gratefully
Emma (born Weiss)


Judy Petersen
 

Emma,
     According to the familysearch catalog (I just searched "Nograd" to find this); there are feudal taxation records for Nograd megye.  According to the list of results, films #1729913, 1729934 and 1729935 contain Jewish records, though the description for each film does not specifically indicate this.
     You should look at all these films, though it may be quite a slog.  They are all digitized, but not indexed/transcribed, so you will have to go through them image by image, which is a huge chore, but be patient and do it.  Just a guess--the Jewish records may be grouped together at the end of the film....??
     I found similar records for Vas megye, and I was able to use them to trace my SCHREINER and LICHT families from Körmend back to 1793.  There were tax census records for 1821/22, 1813, 1808, 1795 and 1793.  The 1848 census was there, but only for Szombathely, not for the entire county.  You may also, if you have a keen eye and can decipher a little bit of Hungarian, find handwritten notes (not entries on a form) about various individuals. 
     Best of luck!!

                  Judy Petersen 


JPmiaou@...
 

"Census of Izraelites living in the borough of B. Gyarmath for the year 1845/46": https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS6Z-GQ3M-D?i=30&cat=636994 (Film # 007995363 images 31 to 46).

It looks like the enumerator consistently spelled Weiss as Vaisz. 299 households to look through. (Keep in mind that each page/list of names is on at least two images, more if the page was refilmed.)

(Speaking of spelling: it's correctly Balassa-, with one L and two S-es. It's the birthplace of both of my parents, so I've had lots of practice spelling it.)

Translating (making sense of) the headers of the census would be a Project: it's making distinctions between words that I would consider synonyms (kereskedés, kalmárság). Oh: the first two pages/lists have the headers in Hungarian, the next page/list is half in Latin, the rest are all in Latin. Hmm. In my Copious Spare Time....

Julia
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emmabcole@...
 

Hi Judy
I've only just realised that replies may appear within the discussion thread, in addition to email replies, hence the delay in my reply to you, many apologies!!
Very many thanks for that, I will search for those films, I don't mind slogs at all if they reveal results! The main difficulty with Weisz/Vaisz I think is that it is a pretty common name, and not all branches seem to be interrelated, but matching up with other Weisz families from Balassa I think will also help, where this forum is also invaluable I think.
Thank you so much again for your help and interest
Emma


emmabcole@...
 

Hi Julia
Thank you so much! Apologies for the delay in replying, I had some email replies but didn't realise they appeared within the thread too, I don't think you get separate alerts for that. I'll have to search back on previous questions I asked to check there are no other unanswered replies...!
I had a quick look at that link, yes a wealth of information but it's only heads of house isn't it? so needs matching to the 1848 census I guess. 
Lots of fun ahead to be had, but absolutely great to have it on line, THANK YOU.
Best
Emma


emmabcole@...
 

Hi Julia
I've looked at the references from Judy above (1729913, 34 and 35) and your link (7995363), but I couldn't see Balassa in the first 3 Nograd docs, only lots of other towns. Your link is for an earlier 1845/6 tax record, do you know if there would have been a separate one for 1848 that would have, say, grouped families together like you see on the 1848 transcribed records within this site. I think that might be the one that would yield the most information.
Many thanks
Emma


emmabcole@...
 

Hi Julia
Bingo! The 1848 Balassa records are in your link at pages 83-96, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS6Z-GQSS-F?i=82&cat=636994
Very many thanks! It's great to have access to it, although it will take some studying to find any names I recognise, and the first few pages are not very legible. But fingers crossed I find something!!
Many thanks again
Emma


Judy Petersen
 

Emma, sorry my suggestions didn't work out, but glad that Julia's did!  Hope you found something on your family!

Judy


JPmiaou@...
 

10. Name: Samuel Waisz Jr., age: 29, birthplace: Hungary, Bgy, residence: ditto, income source: vinegar-maker, behavior: good, children under 10: daughter
Rézi his wife, 25, ditto

21. Samuel Waisz Sr., 55, Hungary, BGyarm., with merchandise, 2 daughters
Josefa his wife, 53
Moraham?, 23, with skins?
Izsák, 17, with merchandise
Jakab, 14

31. Izsak Waisz, 27, furrier?
32. Leopold Waisz, 42, day-laborer, 1? son
Liebes his wife, 35
Emanël?, 12

69. Rosalie Waisz widow, 48, tavern-keeper, 2 daughters
Moses Lebel, 24
Janos, 24

85. Jakab Waisz, 46, merchant
Leni his wife, 38

101. Israel Vaisz, 40, merchant, 1 son, 1 daughter
Rezi? his wife, 38
Moricz, 10

112. Hersel Waisz, 56, with rags, 3 sons, 1 daughter
Hani his wife, 40

128. Israel Weisz, 58, merchant, 2 daughters
Marie his wife, 50
David, 15
Samu, 11
Salamon Lebl? Weisz, 35, merchant
Leni his wife, 22

133. Jakab Waisz, 32, merchant (retailer?)
Beni? his wife, 26

139. Fülep Waisz, 51, merchat, 2 sons, 4 daughters
Fani his wife, 37

142. Ischák? Weisz, 60
Resi his wife, 50
Samuel, 25

145. Mihály Weisz, 45, with skins, 1 son, 4 daughters
Fani his wife, 30
Markusz, 10


161. Juli Weisz widow, 60, with fruit, 1 daughter

167. Marton Weisz widower, 74
Moritz, 38, with merchandise, 1 son, 3 daughters
Rosi his wife, 38

173. Josef Weisz Jr., 50, buyer (agent), 3 daughters
Leni his wife, 40

174. Simon Weisz, 22, with skins
Kati his wife, 25
Kati mother, 50

179. Hermann Weisz, 35, merchant with skins, 1 son, 1 daughter
Toni his wife, 30

184. Abraham Weisz, 38, with milk?, 3 sons, 1 daughter
Hani his wife, 35

191. Leopold Weisz widower, 67
Daniel epileptic, 26

197. Edel Weisz widow, 50, Hungary, in Nyitra
Adolf, 20, from Szügy, glazier
Moritz, 22, deformed in the leg

205. Fáni Weisz widow, 50, 1 daughter
Gábor, 22, with rags

221. Marie Waisz widow, 60

223. Henrik Weisz, 26, with skins
Moses Weisz, 19

237. Simon Vaisz, 42, with rags, 1 son, 1 daughter
Hani his wife, 40
Gaspar, 12

248. Abraham Vaisz Jr., 34, sheep-seller?, 2 daughters
Regina his wife, 30

249. Fáni Vaisz widow, 50

---
Julia
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emmabcole@...
 

Julia - you are an absolute marvel and extremely kind, thank you so much, what a wonderful list full of fascinating information, I certainly hadn't got as far as working out numbers of children or produce/occupation.
I wonder now, though, if my family can have been living in Balassa at that time. Jakab was born in 1815 I think, so would have been about 33, and his wife Fani was born in 1812 so would have been about 36. There are no couples on there that fit this profile. They were in Balassa by January 1851, however, when my great grandfather Lipot's younger brother Adolph was born, and I should look again for his brother Armin who I think would have been born in the 1850s too. I will now see if I can find the 1848 for Obuda which is where I think Fani was from, perhaps that's where they were in 1848?!
Huge thanks again Julia
Emma


JPmiaou@...
 

There were a few pages toward the beginning that were very faint, so I may have missed a family or two.

Óbuda is likely to be "fun": it was twice the size of Balassagyarmat. Population circa 1850, according to Fényes Elek, was 10,760, as opposed to 5653 for Bgy -- or more to the point here, 3343 versus 1963 Jewish residents. Fényes Elek indicates that Óbuda was combined with Buda in 1850. (Budapest was created a few decades later.)

(Balassagyarmat or Gyarmat are the usual ways to refer to the town. When I wrote "Balassa-" above, the dash indicated that this was only the first half. Older records often hyphenate it: Balassa-Gyarmat.)

Fényes Elek: https://www.arcanum.hu/hu/online-kiadvanyok/Lexikonok-magyarorszag-geografiai-szotara-fenyes-elek-BABC3/

Good luck!

Julia
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emmabcole@...
 

Thanks Julia, ok I should start to use BGyarmat then (or B-Gyarmat), I think that's also a common form. Writing in full Balassagyarmat every time is pretty long! The good thing about Fani's name is that Taub seems to be really quite a rare surname. I spotted a Simon Taub on my great grandfather's marriage entry in Budapest in 1873 as one of the witnesses, which leads to another, Hugo Taub. So building up the Taub family might be the way forward, There was also an intriguing Taub family I found on this site's databases at the 1848 census for Abaújszántó ,  2 Taub children separately entered, Fani (aged 9) and Rozsi (aged 2) without other family members, so I will have to trace that link back too.
Best
Emma