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Weinstock from Hungary #hungary #general #slovakia


Moishe Miller
 

Hi Julia,
Typically, I do agree with your view. Even if "name is the same" applies to the spouse. 
 
IMO, what is the same:
What is not the same
  • his birth year on his marriage is 2 years later than both the census and death record
  • his birth location on his death record is different than both the marriage and census, 3 miles different
For me, especially as the death record is the only one Jonasz did not personally report, being dead, is the one leas likely to indicate it is a different person. 
 
I would add, a search on JewishGen for another Jonasz Weinstock married to a Roza Benjamin, does not produce any results. 
 
I am comfortable with the amount of evidence making it likely this is Jonasz's death place. What would really help is if I could locate his tombstone in one of the Oradae (Nagyvarad) cemeteries, and see that it has his father's name of Izak on it. 
 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts,
Moishe Miller
Brooklyn, NY
JGFF# 3391
Moishe Miller


JPmiaou@...
 

The reason I'm automatically wary of "spouse's name is the same, must be the same couple" is that I have ancestors who shared their exact names with another couple in the same small village (population 122). Also, Jewish surnames draw from a pretty limited pool all over Hungary, and the choices of given names came from a rather homogenous short list, too, so name repeats are bound to happen.

If the occupation matches (especially if it's something fairly specialized, rather than a generic "merchant"), it may be enough to tip the scale in favor. (That Dratted Handwriting is getting the best of me on the marriage record, so I don't know what it says for the occupation of Jonas.)

(Bodrog-)Szentes versus Nagygéres as birthplace is a minor difference in terms of geography (3 miles), but one wonders why the difference in reported names. Did they actually live on an outlying farm somewhere, and someone got confused about which municipality it belonged to?

Julia
./\ /\
.>*.*<


guralt@...
 

right
and adding to that, he was a watchmaker indeed. 
and Szentes is bordering Nagy-geres

Jonas had a son Fulop who came to the US twice
he died in 1945
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WTB-PWV

interesting that this family was used as a sample on how to do research..


Moishe Miller
 

Julia,
Upon further review, I think the record is for the same person because the spouse mentioned in the 1861 marriage you reference, and the 1869 birth you reference, do match the same spouse listed in the death record. Also, the age of the deceased, Jonasz, matches the age for the same person listed in the in 1869 census for Jonasz of Tokaj, Zemplen county. 

Why does the town of birth not match the town of birth in the other records? I am not sure. If I could locate his tombstone for that date, it might give further clues. 

-Moishe Miller


JPmiaou@...
 

I'm not certain that the man on the 1869 census in Tokaj (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK8-839K-X?i=429&cat=385993) and the man who died in Nagyvárad are the same person: the census definitely gives "N. Géres" as his birthplace, while the death record is transcribed as saying Szentes for the birthplace. 1906 is nearly a decade after the great official placename-disambiguation project in Hungary, so by then, unmodified "Szentes" meant only the town in Csongrád county, in southern Hungary; for the place in Zemplén county, you had to specify "Bodrogszentes". This would've been especially important in a register entry in a different county, but of course, the registrar could simply have gotten it wrong (because he didn't know to ask the right questions).

You probably already have this, but... Birth of Moricz Weinstock on 23 June 1869, line 14:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9PH-3999-N?i=429&cat=293139

Marriage of Jonas and Rozalia in Sátoraljaújhely (18 June 1861) also has Nagygéres as his birthplace (entry number 195):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89G7-F9B9-V?i=424&cat=292389

Unfortunately, it looks like FamilySearch does not have Jewish records for Királyhelmecz (where both Nagygéres and Bodrogszentes were supposedly recorded).

Julia
./\ /\
.>*.*<


Aaron Slotnik
 

Dear Moishe,

I found Jonas' death record in the JewishGen Hungary Database in Oradea, Romania (formerly Nagyvarad, Hungary) and have attached it below.  There also appears to be a record in JOWBR for his wife in the Oradea Velenta cemetery, although she is only listed as Jonasne Weinstock.



Regards,
Aaron Slotnik
Chicago, IL


Moishe Miller
 

Dear Group,
My g-g-gf was Jonasz (Yona) Weinstock, (born in VelkyHores, to Isak Weinstock and Rosalie Moskowitz, about 1832). This detail comaes from the 1869 Hungarian Census, where he is living in the town of Tokaj (part of Zemplen county) with his wife (Rachel Benjamin) and 5 children. My g-gf was Moritz Weinstock (1869-1949).

I am searching for Jonasz's date and place of death, The only clue I have is that the marriage record of Jonasz's son, Fulop, married 4 Dec 1892 in the town of Nagyvarad, lists that both the bride and groom's parents were alive. So I do know he likely passed after 1892. 

If anyone has suggestions, I would appreciate it.

Thank you, 
Moishe Miller
Brooklyn, NY 
JGFF# 3391
moishe.miller@...