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Housing Family Trees for FREE #general


Saba-isio
 

Shalom,
I had a long conversation with an Orthodox Rabbi on this subject concerning the Mormons who converted dead Jews to the Mormon belief. The Rabbi explained that the Jewish law (Halacha) states simply, "Once a Jew, always a Jew. A Jew is G-d's Chosen people." I tried to make it difficult, so I asked, "What if the Jew converts?"
The Rabbi emphasized, "It will not help him/her. G-d Has Chosen him/her and he  or she can not backtrack on G-d's Decision. This is the law (Halacha)." To clinch this argument. He pointed out to me, "So even if he/she converts, they can be buried in a Jewish cemetery in full Jewish ceremony when they die. All the best,
Shana Tova and may we all enjoy this coming new Year in very good health.
Aizic Sechter from the Lone Magen David State of Israel 


Sarah L Meyer
 

I have many non-Jewish friends who have used this.  Some complain because others changed their information.  It is a collaborative tree much like Geni and wikitree.  I would suggest either of those as alternatives.  I would also suggest looking into Tribal Pages (if it still exists) or doing a google search for "free hosting".  Then put up your own tree.  I believe that I spent between $30 and $40 for TNG the next generation to run my online tree (https://sarahsgenies.com).  Now I did opt to pay for hosting but there is free hosting out there.   I do have a statement about privacy - I include names but no data for the living - and will make people completely private upon request.  Those people do not even show up in an index or name list or search.   
--
Sarah L Meyer
Georgetown TX
ANK(I)ER, BIGOS, KARMELEK, PERLSTADT, STOKFISZ, SZPIL(T)BAUM, Poland
BIRGARDOVSKY, EDELBERG, HITE (CHAIT), PERCHIK Russia (southern Ukraine) and some Latvia or Lithuania
https://www.sarahsgenies.com


YaleZuss@...
 

The last place you want to put your data is on a site that contacts you and asks you to do so.  This is what a phishing attack in a genealogical context would look like.  If Moishe Miller knows the person who invited him use "FamilyEcho," he should find out how that person came to know about it, and see whether it traces back to a credible source.
 
Yale Zussman


JPmiaou@...
 

Jeff Malka wrote:
I remember looking up some prominent Jewish individuals and to my surprise
retrieved their 'baptismal dates'.
Huh? Where and when was this? All iterations of the FamilySearch website that I've dealt with over the past decade have (carefully) not shown any LDS-specific data, such as posthumous rites, to non-LDS.

Barbara Sloan wrote:
I would not and do not house my family tree online anywhere, because I believe in privacy.
I agree that living people do not belong on online trees, anywhere, but the dead neither have nor need privacy.

Julia
./\ /\
.>*.*<


David Lewin
 

At 02:07 03/08/2020, EdrieAnne Broughton wrote:
Actually we all, Jews and non-Jews alike, have a great deal to thank
the LDS church for. Without their obsession with record keeping
lots of the records Americans and world citizens depend on today for
genealogy would have been lost when counties decided to save space
and chuck records back in the 1920s-1970s. It wasn't that long ago
that I heard stories of people dumpster diving to preserve records.
EdrieAnne Broughton
Vacavillle, California
_._,_._,_
How right!!!

Not only did the Mormon Church spend its money freely to preserve our
heritage, but they made it freely available to us.

Members of the Church actually have a deeper access to records that
the general public does. So befriending one of them can greatly
enhance your genealogical reseach.

I have never understood why some people feel such animosity towards
the LDS Church. The Church's beliefs and practices are entirely
theirs. They do not force anybody to convert while still alive. Of
course they want us to convert. What human organisation does nor
want that? If they hope that my soul will join them after I have
died - let them!! They case me no harm, and they allow me to
benefit enormously!

David Lewin
London


Moishe Miller
 

Hello,
 
For those that might want to create and share a Family Tree online, I just got an invite from someone using "FamilyEcho". I do not know much about it, but it seems free and "share-able", without having others update it without your permission.
 
Moishe Miller
Brooklyn, NY
JGFF# 3391


Jeff at SG
 

Besides the religious aspects, there are other problematic aspects. One of them is simple implied misinformation. I remember looking up some prominent Jewish individuals and to my surprise retrieved their 'baptismal dates'. To me at the time (and to unsophisticated future researchers 100 years from now) the logical assumption was that they must have converted! I'm sure there is some clarification somewhere and experts know better but to the casual observer, the logical conclusion is that the person had converted and did not die a Jew. Definitely misinformation. 

I know the LDS has changed its policies about such baptisms as a result of the resulting angry outcry. They can just as easily change it again. But the recorded date of 'baptism' remains forever in the records. 

In my opinion it is insulting and a form of identity theft. These involuntary baptisms need to all be expunged from the records.

Jeff Malka
Too many names to list.


jbonline1111@...
 

I would not and do not house my family tree online anywhere, because I believe in privacy.  The deceased may not care but the living do.  I prefer to house everything on my own computer and backup. 
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC


JPmiaou@...
 

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 10:08 AM, Sally Bruckheimer wrote:
They baptize their ancestors and random others from records, but not Jewish
records.
As far as I know, the LDS church has discontinued all extraction-program-based "temple work" (or whatever you want to call it). Mormons can no longer submit random names from an index; they have to show that they're related to the people whose names they're submitting in order to proceed with the process. (And it is my impression that for relatively-recent people, they have to show that they're either the closest living relative, or that they have permission from the closest relatives.)

I find the concept of the Almighty as Supreme Bureaucrat ... amusing. But whatever the theology, the result is the availability of a vast repository of genealogical records that I could otherwise never hope to access, plus a free collaborative tree that links easily with said records. I am grateful for them, and make extensive use of both, and try to return some of the favor by indexing and working on FS's places database.

And if putting someone's profile on FamilySearch's Family Tree should result in some random LDS member submitting that information for some religious rite or other, I don't actually care. I don't believe in those rites, my deceased relatives never heard of those rites, and chances are that they would not have believed in them if they had, so it's all meaningless and really not worth any worry.

But if despite the logic you still object to Mormons, there's WikiTree. The interface is not particularly user-friendly (familiarity with markdown/coding a definite plus), the handling of names is Anglo-centric and illogical, and proper citing of one's sources gets tediously convoluted, but there's an active community of helpful users, there are all sorts of tools available to display and analyze data, and the developers are constantly working on improvements.

Julia
./\ /\
.>*.*<


YaleZuss@...
 

There is a real trade-off in posting your tree on-line that goes well beyond whether LDS still engages in post-mortem baptisms:  Anything that goes on-line is hackable and whatever family relationships you post there are potentially in the public/hacker domain.  If your tree includes family secrets, or just identifies relationships that may enable another to gain access to other information about you or your relatives, you will have opened the door to all kinds of on-line mischief.  People should weigh those risks against the advantages of making your information available to others and having a place for your research to be preserved after your own departure.
 
--Yale Zussman


Sally Bruckheimer
 

" Mormons no longer baptise the deceased."

Mormons no longer baptize deceased Jews unless they are their ancestors. They baptize their ancestors and random others from records, but not Jewish records.

But since it is a wasted effort, why do we care? They are doing us a big service by providing us records and a free internet genealogy site. I know that some people are sensitive, but they aren't accomplishing anything by waving their hands over dead people's records.

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ


martyn@...
 

A number of years ago when I was Chairman of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain, we raised this subject with the Mormon Church here in the UK.  We received an absolute assurance that the Mormons no longer baptise the deceased.  I do hope that this is still the case.
For my part I find Family Search very useful.

Perhaps someone could now ask the Mormon Church whether the assurance they gave to us, still applies?

Martyn Woolf
London 


EdrieAnne Broughton
 

Actually we all, Jews and non-Jews alike, have a great deal to thank the LDS church for.  Without their obsession with record keeping lots of the records Americans and world citizens depend on today for genealogy would have been lost when counties decided to save space and chuck records back in the 1920s-1970s.  It wasn't that long ago that I heard stories of people dumpster diving to preserve records.
        EdrieAnne Broughton
        Vacavillle, California


Lisa Liel
 

I'm aware of this, and you have a right to accept that at face value.  For the record, I do.  But I also know that there are a lot of Jews who would *not* be okay with that, and suggesting to Jews that they post their family trees on FamilySearch without letting them know as well the use that may be made of that information is unfair.  I don't know why anyone would want to keep that information from people.

Lisa


On 8/2/2020 9:53 PM, Barbara Mannlein wrote:

What do you mean, Lisa?

Are you worried about posthumous baptism? The purpose is to ensure that ancestors can join church members in the afterlife. Individual Mormons submit to the church the names of persons they wish to have baptized, then undergo baptism“by proxy.”  The LDS believe that the baptism must be accepted by the person baptized, so if you know that your ancestors would not accept being baptized, you have no concerns.  

    "Each individual has agency, or the right to choose. The validity of a baptism for the dead depends on the deceased person accepting it and choosing to accept and follow the Savior while residing in the spirit world. The names of deceased persons are not added to the membership records of the Church."

Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, AZ


On Aug 2, 2020, at 8:08 AM, Lisa Liel <lisa@...> wrote:
Or, you know, don't, if you have any concerns about what the Mormon Church will do with records of your ancestors.
_._,_._,_
Build your family tree on Family Search's Family Tree site.  This LDS collaboartive tree site is totally free and claims it's the largest family tree and still growing.
James Castellan
Rose Valley, PA




Virus-free. www.avast.com


Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 


What do you mean, Lisa?

Are you worried about posthumous baptism? The purpose is to ensure that ancestors can join church members in the afterlife. Individual Mormons submit to the church the names of persons they wish to have baptized, then undergo baptism“by proxy.”  The LDS believe that the baptism must be accepted by the person baptized, so if you know that your ancestors would not accept being baptized, you have no concerns.  

    "Each individual has agency, or the right to choose. The validity of a baptism for the dead depends on the deceased person accepting it and choosing to accept and follow the Savior while residing in the spirit world. The names of deceased persons are not added to the membership records of the Church."

Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, AZ


On Aug 2, 2020, at 8:08 AM, Lisa Liel <lisa@...> wrote:
Or, you know, don't, if you have any concerns about what the Mormon Church will do with records of your ancestors.
_._,_._,_
Build your family tree on Family Search's Family Tree site.  This LDS collaboartive tree site is totally free and claims it's the largest family tree and still growing.
James Castellan
Rose Valley, PA



Max Heffler
 

Personally, I don’t believe those that have passed care and I’ll take the benefit of finding long lost family.

 

From: main@... [mailto:main@...] On Behalf Of Lisa Liel via groups.jewishgen.org
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 10:08 AM
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [JewishGen.org] Housing Family Trees for FREE #general

 

Or, you know, don't, if you have any concerns about what the Mormon Church will do with records of your ancestors.

_._,_._,_


--

Web sites I manage - Personal home page, Greater Houston Jewish Genealogical Society, Woodside Civic Club, Skala, Ukraine KehilalLink, Joniskelis, Lithuania KehilaLink, and pet volunteer project - Yizkor book project: www.texsys.com/websites.html


Lisa Liel
 

Or, you know, don't, if you have any concerns about what the Mormon Church will do with records of your ancestors.


James
 

Harold,

Build your family tree on Family Search's Family Tree site. This LDS collaboartive tree site is totally free and claims it's the largest family tree and still growing.

James Castellan
Rose Valley, PA