Seeking feedback re: conflicting surnames (GORDON, COHEN, SEBULSKY) and (JAFFE, SINGER, STRAUSE) #names


Jocelyn Keene
 

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 11:17 PM, Tracy Fish wrote:
The second conflicting name group JAFFE, SINGER, STRAUSE:
My other 3xGG also has conflicting names on records: Bloome STRAUSE and Rivka SINGER. The same Mary GORDON mentioned above married Issac (Israil) JAFFE in 1893.
1. According to NY Marriage Records for Mary GORDON and spouse Issac (Israil) JAFFE in 1893, Issac's mother's name is listed as Bloome STRAUSE.
2. According to NY municipal death record for Issac (Israil) JAFFE in 1907, Issac's mother's name is listed as Rivka SINGER.

I'd just like to add my two cents for what it's worth.  I never believe a death record over another record.  After all, when Isaac's death record was filled out, Isaac was dead and couldn't provide the information.  Probably the person who filled it out had no real reason to know Isaac's mother's name.  Whereas the marriage record was presumably filled out, or the information was given, by Isaac himself. 

Jocelyn Keene
Pasadena, California, USA


Tracy Fish
 

Hi Michele,
Thanks for your suggestions.

Re: your first question: What other evidence to you have from records that Mary Gordon and Jennie Gordon are sisters? Do their ages closely match what you have from census records, etc? 
I know for fact Mary Gordon and Jennie Gordon are sisters. Mary Jaffe nee. Gordon had 6 children and Jennie had 4 children. One of Mary's daughter's married one of Jennie's sons. My grandmother was very close to this family and I have photos of most of them. Unfortunately, the family dwindled and there aren't really any descendants left/people I can ask.

Re: your second question: Marriage and death records for Isaac Jaffe - is there evidence that these are the same Isaac Jaffe? Do their ages in the records match up? Do their addresses (obtained from the record images) match up?
Yes these records/ages/addresses all match up. Also in all instances for these records, the father's names are all consistent and match the names on the headstones. The addresses are also consistent with the census records, the jobs and the cemetery that's mentioned on the death certificate. Which growing up I would often visit the cemetery where many of them are buried.

Abridged summary of records:

Records I currently have for my 2XGG Israel/Issac JAFFE, son of Bloome STRAUSE/Rivka SINGER :
-Marriage certificate
-Death certificate
-Census Records
-Will and Probate
-Index to Petitions for Naturalization
-Israel Jaffe arrived in the U.S. ~1890 at ~13-15 years old. I haven't been able to find his passenger list record.

Records I have for my 2XGG Mary Jaffe nee. GORDON:
-Marriage Record
-Census Records
-Death/Death Index
-I have not been able to find her passenger list record

Records I have for my 3XGAunt Jennie Fleischer nee. GORDON
-Census Records
-Buried at Mt. Judah Cemetery *I have not seen her headstone and curious what her hebrew name is written as
-Marriage Index
-Death Index
-I have not been able to find her passenger list record

Records I have for my 3XG Aunt Esther Tucker nee. GORDON
-Census Records
-JewishGen Online Worldwide Burial Registry
-She is mentioned on her husband Jacob TUCKER's State and Federal Naturalization Records. On his draft records it says he is from Ekaterinoslav. I have not been able to find their passenger list records, however I believe they were married prior to the U.S.

Mary, Jennie, and Esther's father Aaron GORDON immigrated to the U.S. His census records all say Widowed, so I believe Esther Cohen/Sebulsky did not come to the U.S. I also have Aaron's death certificate. He was never naturalized and I could not find his passenger list record.

I have all this in my tree on Ancestry. Wish I could just fill in the gaps to make sense of these conflicting names.

--
Tracy Fish
tsfishphotography@...


Michele Lock
 

Here's what I suggest, based on my research to tell apart persons from NYC with the same name, similar year of arrival, similar age, spouse's name - 

1. Get a copy of the image of the marriage and death records. These will have the address of residence for the persons of interest. These can be matched (or not) to addresses from census records, draft cards, naturalization papers, to tell people with the same name apart. 
How to get the images - There is a facebook group called New York City Genealogy. Every day, the admin named Melanie Curtis Egan starts a new post, for those who want the images of birth/death/marriage records in NYC, based on the FamilySearch page for each record. There are persons in that group who know how to get the images from their local Family History Center via wifi from the Center parking lots. The post from the admin lists what info they need from a requestor to do this.

2. For a death record, the image will show the cemetery where the person was buried; this should match what you know from gravestones or obituaries of the deceased.

3. As for your two situations above - 
A. What other evidence to you have from records that Mary Gordon and Jennie Gordon are sisters? Do their ages closely match what you have from census records, etc? 

B. Marriage and death records for Isaac Jaffe - is there evidence that these are the same Isaac Jaffe? Do their ages in the records match up? Do their addresses (obtained from the record images) match up? 

The challenge with NYC vital records is that so many early immigrants had relatively common Jewish surnames, and took/had first names from a limited pool: Ben, Morris, Isadore, Isaac, Abraham, Sam, Jacob, Irving, Charles, Joseph, etc, etc, etc. And for women - Sarah, Rose, Esther, Minnie, Fannie, Tillie, Bessie, Lina, Sylvia, Ada, Ida, Pearl, etc, etc, etc. All immigrating to NYC in the early 1900s, most in their 20s. How many of us have family trees filled with these first names, over and over again?

A case in point - I helped a friend look into his Citron family in NYC. An uncommon Jewish surname - and yet I found two Ben Citrons, both living in the Bronx, both similar ages. One married to a Fannie, another to a Tillie. Figured out who was who based on the image of a death record and ages of first born child. And then I found two couples named Sam and Lena Citron, with both women born the same year! Took a naturalization paper to figure out who was who, plus comparing addresses from census records and draft cards, as well as occupations of the men.

So, to tease things out, get more records on the individuals you are trying to trace, and go from there.
--
Michele Lock

Lock/Lak/Lok and Kalon in Zagare/Joniskis, Lithuania
Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania
Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland
Lavine in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Minsk gub., Belarus


 

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 11:17 PM, Tracy Fish wrote:
1. According to the NY Index to Death Certificate Mary's death certificate lists her mother's name as Esther GORDON
2. According to NY Marriage Records for Mary GORDON and spouse Issac (Israil) JAFFE in 1893, Mary's mother is listed as Hester COHEN
3. According to NY Marriage Records for Jennie GORDON and spouse Philip FLEISCHER in 1898, Jennie's mother is listed as Hester SEBULSKY.
I have seen this pattern multiple times, my 2GGM is an example where I have sorted this out, other cases not so much. So let me suggest some options: For this first group, on the Death Certificate (1), the person reporting the names did not know Esther/Hester's maiden name and used her married name. On Marriage Record #2, Mary's mother's name is likely her maiden name (COHEN). For Marriage Record #2, Hester either remarried to Mr SEBULSKY after Mr COHEN died, or SEBULSKY was Hester's mother's maiden name. (COHEN could also be a reference to ha Kohain and later used as a surname - which also occurs in my family.)

For group 2, that's a mystery. Very different first names. Perhaps Bloome STRAUSE died and Isaac's father remarried, or more likely, the person reporting did not know the correct information.
 
--
Jeff Goldner
Researching Goldner, Singer, Neuman, Braun, Schwartz, Gluck, Reichfeld (Hungary/Slovakia); Adler, Roth, Ader (Galicia); Soltz/Shultz/Zuckerman/Zicherman (Vitebsk, maybe Lithuania)


Tracy Fish
 

Hi all,

I am returning back to researching one of my family branches. I had hit a wall a couple of years ago because there were significantly different maiden names for two of my 3XGG.

I will start with the first conflicting name group: GORDON/COHEN/SEBULSKY
My 3XGG Esther (or Hester) to my knowledge did not immigrate to the U.S. Her husband Aaron GORDON (1835-1920) and their 3 daughters Mary/Miriam (1873-1940) who was my 2XGG, Jennie (1878-1950) and Esther (1889-1969) did at various times. There are 3 men that I am currently speculating are brothers but I have not confirmed. 

The issue I have run into is that there are different maiden names/names listed for Esther on different records:
1. According to the NY Index to Death Certificate Mary's death certificate lists her mother's name as Esther GORDON
2. According to NY Marriage Records for Mary GORDON and spouse Issac (Israil) JAFFE in 1893, Mary's mother is listed as Hester COHEN
3. According to NY Marriage Records for Jennie GORDON and spouse Philip FLEISCHER in 1898, Jennie's mother is listed as Hester SEBULSKY.

COHEN and SEBULSKY are obviously very different surnames. 


The second conflicting name group JAFFE, SINGER, STRAUSE:
My other 3xGG also has conflicting names on records: Bloome STRAUSE and Rivka SINGER. The same Mary GORDON mentioned above married Issac (Israil) JAFFE in 1893.
1. According to NY Marriage Records for Mary GORDON and spouse Issac (Israil) JAFFE in 1893, Issac's mother's name is listed as Bloome STRAUSE.
2. According to NY municipal death record for Issac (Israil) JAFFE in 1907, Issac's mother's name is listed as Rivka SINGER.

Again, this is another scenario with two very different names.

Any suggestions how to determine which would have been the correct names? In both instances, they are just vastly different. I'm really not sure how to best proceed and would appreciate any advice. I understand depending on who was reporting the information things could have been mixed-up. All of these records for these family branches only list Russia as location, so I also do not know specifically where they originate.

Thank you in advance,

--
Tracy Fish
Nevada/Brooklyn, New York
tsfishphotography@...
IG: @tsfish

Researching many surnames including: Belarus: DORINSON/DOROSINSKY, LEIBOWITZ/LEVOVICH, LEVIN; Hungary: FRIEDMAN, HERTZ, KLEIN, WEIS; Poland: CHELMINSKI, FRAJSTMAN/TRAJSTMAN, KIERZENBLAT, LAKOMSKA, LANGMAN, LESZCZYNSKI, LEWKOWICZ, MARKOWSKI/MARKS, POTOLOWSKA, SKOVRONSKY/SKOWRONSKI, WYGODA/WEGODA; Russia: GORDON, JAFFE, KAPLAN, PAKORNOV, SEBULSKY; Kronstadt/Saint Petersburg, Russia: COHEN, FELDMAN, FISH/FISCH, GRUNER, TSCHESNO, SLAVIN