Ashkenazim with Oriental eyes #general
Mel Comisarow
In Ukraine, during the 1918–1920 Russian Civil War between the Whites and the Reds, some of the White soldiers were from Central Asian territories like Kyrgystan. They rode camels. They also had "Oriental" genes that would have been left on any children that they sired in Ukraine. I presume that Central
Asian DNA can be distinguised from Chinese DNA. Mel Comisarow Vancouver BC
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Kenneth Ryesky
Mel, the Ashkenazi Jews with "Oriental eyes" phenomenon was around before the 1918 Red/White Russian civil war.
On my father's side, a 2nd cousin of mine once made inquiry regarding the Ryesky/Raisky family, and was asked whether they had "Khazak eyes."
My grandfather and some of his first cousins did have relatively high cheekbones and vertically elongated eyes (including his first cousin, the noted spectrographic scientist Solomon Mendelevich Raisky). -- Ken Ryesky, Petach Tikva, Israel kenneth.ryesky@... Researching: RAISKY/REISKY, ARONOV, SHKOLNIK(OV), AEROV; Gomel, Belarus GERTZIG, BRODSKY; Yelizavetgrad, Ukraine BRODSKY, VASILESKY; Odessa, Ukraine IZRAELSON, ARSHENOV; Yevpatoriya, Ukraine (Crimea)
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m.solman@...
My great-grandfather Shimon Kruk, born in Warsaw, Poland in 1847, most definitely had 'Oriental' eyes as did one of his granddaughters who passed away in Toronto at 101 a few years ago in Toronto. I always noticed her eyes whenever we met. I had such eyes which were pronounced when I was baby, still noticeable to me now!
Re my great-grandfather, this is long before the 1918-1920 Russian Civil War. Given the prominence of the last name Kruk in Plock, I assume his family was originally from there, just west of Warsaw. My guess is the family fled the Rhineland valley during the Crusades and reached Plock then. Perhaps something happened along the way that genetically introduced the 'Oriental' eyes then. OR Genghis Khan's Mongol warriors, I believe, reached all the way across Asia to Poland at one point in the 13th century. That could be an explanation. Mel Solman Toronto
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mandy.molava@...
I seem to remember proving this from your own DNA and I think it was GEDmatch ...also top of nose width apparently is a good indication, correct me if I'm wrong.
Mandy Molava Researching Belarus Russia Brest Galacia
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jbonline1111@...
As Jews dispersed throughout the world, there was surely intermingling. We even see it in the Bible. I know Indian Jews who have the same complexion as Hindus from the same part of India, for example. Yemeni Jews tend to have the same complexion as their historical neighbors too. Whether by choice or by force, this would account for features of various groups.
-- Barbara Sloan Conway, SC
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The epicanthic fold also popped up in my Ukrainian lineages but that is key...it pops up, it doesn't affect an entire family. My belief based on the history of the greater Lithuania/Poland region is that it is a residual genetic impact (what a nice way to describe what often was "rape", eh?) from the Tatar invasions of the areas within that region in the 12th-17th centuries.
-- Deb aka Debra Katz Pacific Beach CA USA dnadeb@...
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Jeffrey Herrmann
Before attributing an epicanthic fold to a 12th century ancestor, it would be helpful to read the posts in the thread Autosomal Analysis Question. On balance it would be far more plausible to find a recent Asian ancestor to explain the introgression of genes for the epicanthic fold into your lineage than one 12th century ancestor.
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Sarah L Meyer
It is in my Polish line from my maternal grandfather to my mother to my sister and I and to both my children.
-- Sarah L Meyer Georgetown TX ANK(I)ER, BIGOS, KARMELEK, PERLSTADT, STOKFISZ, SZPIL(T)BAUM, Poland BIRGARDOVSKY, EDELBERG, HITE (CHAIT), PERCHIK Russia (southern Ukraine) and some Latvia or Lithuania https://www.sarahsgenies.com
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kshepard
For what it's worth the epicanthic fold is also present in Hispanics and people with Down Syndrome. V/r, Kathleen Shepard On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, 08:52:52 AM CST, Jeffrey Herrmann <jeffrey.herrmann@...> wrote: Before attributing an epicanthic fold to a 12th century ancestor, it would be helpful to read the posts in the thread Autosomal Analysis Question. On balance it would be far more plausible to find a recent Asian ancestor to explain the introgression of genes for the epicanthic fold into your lineage than one 12th century ancestor.
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koshka5@...
My maternal great-grandmother was born around 1890 in Kolyshki, a small village in Vitebsk, Belarus. She had Oriental eyes and high cheekbones as did my grandmother and a couple of her siblings. My mother and youngest sibling both have Oriental eyes. My mother thought there may have been some Mongolian genes, but her DNA test came back as 100% European Jewish.
Marcy Kalvelage Illinois
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