Ashkenazim with Oriental eyes #general


koshka5@...
 

My maternal great-grandmother was born around 1890 in Kolyshki, a small village in Vitebsk, Belarus.  She had Oriental eyes and high cheekbones as did my grandmother and a couple of her siblings.  My mother and youngest sibling both have Oriental eyes.  My mother thought there may have been some Mongolian genes, but her DNA test came back as 100% European Jewish.

Marcy Kalvelage
Illinois


kshepard
 

For what it's worth the epicanthic fold is also present in Hispanics and people with Down Syndrome.

V/r,

Kathleen Shepard

On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, 08:52:52 AM CST, Jeffrey Herrmann <jeffrey.herrmann@...> wrote:


Before attributing an epicanthic fold to a 12th century ancestor, it would be helpful to read the posts in the thread Autosomal Analysis Question.
On average, any one ancestor’s contribution to your DNA is halved for every generation further back from you that ancestor is.   An ancestor living in the 12th century, on average, would be expected to contribute about one billionth or less of your DNA.  Endogamy could result in more DNA than that making its way to you, but quantifying it is impossible.  

On balance it would be far more plausible to find a recent Asian ancestor to explain the introgression of genes for the epicanthic fold into your lineage than one 12th century ancestor.
Jeffrey Herrmann
London, UK 


Sarah L Meyer
 

It is in my Polish line from my maternal grandfather to my mother to my sister and I and to both my children.

--
Sarah L Meyer
Georgetown TX
ANK(I)ER, BIGOS, KARMELEK, PERLSTADT, STOKFISZ, SZPIL(T)BAUM, Poland
BIRGARDOVSKY, EDELBERG, HITE (CHAIT), PERCHIK Russia (southern Ukraine) and some Latvia or Lithuania
https://www.sarahsgenies.com


Jeffrey Herrmann
 

Before attributing an epicanthic fold to a 12th century ancestor, it would be helpful to read the posts in the thread Autosomal Analysis Question.
On average, any one ancestor’s contribution to your DNA is halved for every generation further back from you that ancestor is.   An ancestor living in the 12th century, on average, would be expected to contribute about one billionth or less of your DNA.  Endogamy could result in more DNA than that making its way to you, but quantifying it is impossible.  

On balance it would be far more plausible to find a recent Asian ancestor to explain the introgression of genes for the epicanthic fold into your lineage than one 12th century ancestor.
Jeffrey Herrmann
London, UK 


Deb Katz
 

The epicanthic fold also popped up in my Ukrainian lineages but that is key...it pops up, it doesn't affect an entire family.  My belief based on the history of the greater Lithuania/Poland region is that it is a residual genetic impact (what a nice way to describe what often was "rape", eh?) from the Tatar invasions of the areas within that region in the 12th-17th centuries.
--
Deb
aka Debra Katz
Pacific Beach CA USA
dnadeb@...


jbonline1111@...
 

As Jews dispersed throughout the world, there was surely intermingling. We even see it in the Bible.  I know Indian Jews who have the same complexion as Hindus from the same part of India, for example. Yemeni Jews tend to have the same complexion as their historical neighbors too. Whether by choice or by force, this would account for features of various groups.  
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC


mandy.molava@...
 

I seem to remember proving this from your own DNA and I think it was GEDmatch ...also top of nose width apparently is a good indication, correct me if I'm wrong.

Mandy Molava
Researching Belarus Russia Brest Galacia


m.solman@...
 

My great-grandfather Shimon Kruk, born in Warsaw, Poland in 1847, most definitely had 'Oriental' eyes as did one of his granddaughters who passed away in Toronto at 101 a few years ago in Toronto. I always noticed her eyes whenever we met.  I had such eyes which were pronounced when I was baby, still noticeable to me now!
Re my great-grandfather, this is long before the 1918-1920 Russian Civil War.  Given the prominence of the last name Kruk in Plock, I assume his family was originally from there, just west of Warsaw.   My guess is the family fled the Rhineland valley during the Crusades and reached Plock then.  Perhaps something happened along the way that genetically introduced the 'Oriental' eyes then.  OR Genghis Khan's Mongol warriors, I believe, reached all the way across Asia to Poland at one point in the 13th century.  That could be an explanation.

Mel Solman
Toronto


Kenneth Ryesky
 

Mel, the Ashkenazi Jews with "Oriental eyes" phenomenon was around before the 1918 Red/White Russian civil war.

 

On my father's side, a 2nd cousin of mine once made inquiry regarding the Ryesky/Raisky family, and was asked whether they had "Khazak eyes." 

 

My grandfather and some of his first cousins did have relatively high cheekbones and vertically elongated eyes (including his first cousin, the noted spectrographic scientist Solomon Mendelevich Raisky).


--
Ken Ryesky,  Petach Tikva, Israel     kenneth.ryesky@... 

Researching:
RAISKY/REISKY, ARONOV, SHKOLNIK(OV), AEROV; Gomel, Belarus
GERTZIG, BRODSKY; Yelizavetgrad, Ukraine
BRODSKY, VASILESKY; Odessa, Ukraine
IZRAELSON, ARSHENOV; Yevpatoriya, Ukraine (Crimea)


Mel Comisarow
 

In Ukraine, during the 1918–1920 Russian Civil War between the Whites and the Reds, some of the White soldiers were from Central Asian territories like Kyrgystan. They rode camels. They also had "Oriental" genes that would have been left on any children that they sired in Ukraine. I presume that Central 
Asian DNA can be distinguised from Chinese DNA. 

Mel Comisarow
Vancouver BC