Are children named for living or dead relatives if one parent is Ashkenazi and one is Sephardic? #names


Mark Stone
 

Dear S. Rotkopf, and All,

 

Firstly love your City and Country. Trust me you are no doubt absolutely correct, but their English was not great.

 

Charna Rywka Lichtenstein (Brones) died on 3rd December 1917 in Warsaw. Charles Victor Stone and that is not on his birth certificate, b .7th February 1918.

 

They would not have been able to go to the funeral, because of the Great War.

 

What should they have called him!

 

On his burial stone it has his Hebrew name. That would probably would make sense.

 

With very kind regards

 

Mark Paul Stone

 

 

 

From: jacro <jacro@...>
Sent: 18 February 2021 15:47
To: markstone@...
Subject: Re: Are children named for living or dead relatives if one parent is Ashkenazi and one is Sephardic?

 

Charna has nothing to do with Charles!!!

1. Charles is not a jewish name. This Charles surely had also a jewish name

2. Charna was used by russian and polish jews and means BLACK in polish and russian!

 

regards

 

S. Rotkopf

Antwerp

Belgium


Mark Stone
 

Dear All and Joyaa,

 

The naming refers to parents and grandparents no doubt. I presume that this is more tradition than law. If anyone could clarify, if it is law, that it would be most appreciated.

 

On my father’s side, I do not see family named with anyone alive, in fact a great help when trying to put together a family tree and it definitely works.

 

At Okopowa cemetery in Warsaw you see great grandmother buried with stone readable and her name Charna. A short while later my uncle is born named Charles. There is no other record of Charna’s death, but the naming is certainly

 

a further confirmation, which we all strive to achieve.

 

On the Dutch side and they certainly came from the Iberian Peninsular and were Sephardic. I see going back father to son one is Coenraad Raphael and the son is  Raphael Coenraad. (Both are first names).

 

My mother and her sister (Only Two Children) are named after both grandma’s, who were still alive.

 

I only see very occasionally father to son with same name and it certainly makes for great confusion!

 

The Sephardic family names are Morpurgo, Raphael,(Ziekenoppasser), Stodel, Hollander,etc.

 

With kind regards to you all

 

Mark Paul Stone (Lichtenstein)

 

 

 

From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Joyaa Antares
Sent: 17 February 2021 23:34
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [JewishGen.org] Are children named for living or dead relatives if one parent is Ashkenazi and one is Sephardic? #names

 

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 03:05 AM, Stephen Weinstein wrote:

If both parents are Ashkenazi, children are named after deceased relatives, or not named for anyone, but never named for the living

I am from an Ashkenazi family.  There are numerous amongst us (including me) named after relatives who were living, so it's important in these discussions to distinguish between what is laid out in Jewish Law and the broader possibilities that can occur in practice.

Joyaa ANTARES
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia


Joyaa Antares
 

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 03:05 AM, Stephen Weinstein wrote:
If both parents are Ashkenazi, children are named after deceased relatives, or not named for anyone, but never named for the living

I am from an Ashkenazi family.  There are numerous amongst us (including me) named after relatives who were living, so it's important in these discussions to distinguish between what is laid out in Jewish Law and the broader possibilities that can occur in practice.

Joyaa ANTARES
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia


Schelly Talalay Dardashti
 

There is no halakhah (jewish law) governing this. The parents need to come to a mutually accepted decision! This is rather common in LA and elsewhere. The Ashkenazi side is shocked that the GF is offered the honor of having the baby named in his honor because of the Ashk custom of only naming after the deceased. Once the Ashk side (in my experience) understand the honor and why, they feel much better about it, and there is less "recoiling in horror" - LOL! 

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
New Mexico


ahcbfc@...
 

My children's Jewish/Hebrew are named after one deceased relative (I'm Ashkenazim) and one living relative (husband is Sephardi) though we definitely had quite a conversation during the first pregnancy.
Barbara Cohen
Glenview IL
ahcbfc@...


billie.stein@...
 

For "mixed" families, there is no hard and fast rule, but most likely if the naming is for a Sephardic relative, it may be of a live one, whereas if naming for an Ashkenazi relative, it would be for someone no longer living.

Billie Stein
Givatayim, Israel


David Harrison
 

From a series of trails of ancestors in The Netherlands, I have found that the given names of the firstborn alternate through the ages.  This means that most firstborn first cousins have not only the same given name but also the same family name.  But luckily in that country because the wife has not changed her family name and their system whereby there is no Census on a specific day , but a "house-book' for each ten-year period which cross-references all movements in and out over that period, there is a significant amount of other material to help sorting out which is which.  In my family a young person spent several years with a relative and was therefore crossed out on leaving and a new entry on return, whilst another listed for a period of time the employment of a "Wet-Nurse"; there are some advantages of a semi-police-state!
David Harrison, Birmingham, GB
DREILSMA, VAN RYN, HYMAN, DE YOUNG; Netherlands


From: main@... <main@...> on behalf of Mark Stone <markstone@...>
Sent: 17 February 2021 10:14
To: main@... <main@...>
Subject: Re: [JewishGen.org] Are children named for living or dead relatives if one parent is Ashkenazi and one is Sephardic? #names
 

I come from a family of Ashkenazi on my father's side and from Sephardic origins from my mother’s family.

 

I once asked a learned man “where does it leave me?”.

 

The answer  “absolutely nowhere!”

 

Thank G-d for the State of Israel, because it no longer matters!

 

Mark Paul Stone   Lichtenstein/Morpurgo

P. S. Anyway I was named after my grandfather who passed away. However surely they are named ref: Dutch side, with the fathers name in the middle . Shall we say "ben", but it is not used


Mark Stone
 

I come from a family of Ashkenazi on my father's side and from Sephardic origins from my mother’s family.

 

I once asked a learned man “where does it leave me?”.

 

The answer  “absolutely nowhere!”

 

Thank G-d for the State of Israel, because it no longer matters!

 

Mark Paul Stone   Lichtenstein/Morpurgo

P. S. Anyway I was named after my grandfather who passed away. However surely they are named ref: Dutch side, with the fathers name in the middle . Shall we say "ben", but it is not used


Stephen Weinstein
 

If both parents are Ashkenazi, children are named after deceased relatives, or not named for anyone, but never named for the living.
If both parents are Sephardic, children are named for living relatives.

If one parent is Ashkenazi and one is Sephardic, do they follow Ashkenazi or Sephardic naming practices?
--
Stephen Weinstein
Camarillo, California, USA
stephenweinstein@...