Translation Hungarian to English #translation

Alex Magocsi

Attached is a screen grab of the birth record (25 June 1878 Nyirbator) for Jozsef GELB, son of Herman GELB and Sara Friedman.
Above Herman's name is a + which I believe is an indication that someone is deceased.
Below the entry for Jozsef is a note that has been entered at a later date and it appears to begin with meghalt (died).

Can someone please translate the note for me?  I currently assume that it pertains to Herman.

Thank you
Alex Magocsi
Hamburg Germany

Marianna Toth

I think that Hermán is corrected to Herman, and that + does not show a death of Herman, just a comma crossed out.
You should seek the death record of Jozsef in Nagyida, 1891, 14th December.
Marianna Toth


 A link to the actual page would be more helpful. I haven't seen crosses on Jewish records. The marking is the diacritic above the a. Also they wouldn't be noting the father's death on a birth record. It refers to Jozsef dying Dec 1891, but it could also refer to Eliasz. You need to find the death record to make sure.
Stephen Schmideg
Melbourne, Australia


A number of unusual things here that I have not seen before:

1. The name is also given in Hebrew script.
2. Hermán is given in the German rather than in the Hungarian as Armin.  Many records switched in 1867.
3. Annotation of a death would be most irregular in a birth register.  The writing is difficult to decipher but some annotation has been made in 1891.  However it is also difficult to work out if the annotation refers to the entry above or the entry below.  My guess is that the word is not meghalt, but something else.

Tom Beer
Melbourne Australia.




Hello Mr Magocsi,                                                                                                           8th May 2021

looking at your request: 
In my assertion there  are three different birth records:
11.--Sali--might be short for Rosalia -in Hungarian--Jewish name -Baby Suri/Sara --lany/girl  born 3rd June 1878   Torvenyes--meaning /legal/ within Wedlock

12. Jozsef--Jewish Name Josef/Josuf--born 25th June 1878--torvenyes/legal  --  born within wedlock//meaning parents were married  prior to the baby was born.
                    Fiu/ boy--  father's name Gelb Herman--( Family name GELB--first name Herman--in Hungarian at times the letter 'a' had a dash --leading  to the pronunciation of the letter 'a' without the 'dash' being slightly different 
Sadly, in my understanding Baby Jozsef passed away_- in 'Nagy-Ida'--I wonder?  on the 12th or 14th of Teves??

---On a different note: interestingly--My late father-in law's  mother was    ;Nee  Pepi--GELB--( GELB Pepi )  around 1870??

13: baby Eliaz  --born 1878--  fiu/boy  Jewish name -- Sruli? I wonder  short for Yisroel?  Torvanyes /Baby was born also within wedlock

Best wishes to evrybody
Veronika Pachtinger
London UK

Vivian Kahn

I disagree with several of Tom's observations.

1. It is not unusual to find name written in Hebrew in Jewish birth records such as this one. I have transcribed hundreds, if not thousands, of Jewish birth records and frequently come across entries that include Hebrew name in addition to secular. Very useful information because many researchers are unfamiliar with their ancestors' secular names.
2. Not unusual to use German rather than Hungarian versions of names. Practice varies based on local customs as well as family preference.
3. Not unusual to include date of death or other information (e.g. marriages, surname name changes, etc.) in comments column on birth records. This is fortunate because births were more likely to be recorded than marriages and/or deaths.

Vivian Kahn
JewishGen Hungarian Research Director