Mystery man in London, 1905: Isidor Lasker #unitedkingdom #general


Jill Whitehead
 

Have you tried Laski as a variant - they were a well known family in Manchester, as in the former TV personality Marghanita Laski? One of my family married into the Laskis. They were here in the 1860's.  

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK


Yehoshua Sivan
 

... numerous questions remain. A simple one for now: "Isidor/Isadore" appears to be a Greek name, 'gift of Isis'. 
https://dbs.anumuseum.org.il/skn/en/c6/e216223/Family_Name/ISIDOR
Jewish parents often gave the name to their sons as an equivalent of Isaac and Israel...
Yehoshua Sivan


bjtranslations+genes@...
 

Thank you all!

  • Diane - now I understand, thanks - a useful approach as I research further.
  • Jeremy - thanks for the JC tip, I've taken a look and see more can be done here.
  • Off-list, Eva - thanks so much for doing those searches. Intriguing possibilities, but as you'll see below, I think they're probably unconnected.
  • Off-list, Sherri - thanks, I did consider the 'cad using a false name' as a last resort, intriguing too but very hard to research.
  • Off-list, Amit - thanks, even though my problem was Isidor not Eva.
  • Others I may have forgotten en route - thank you too!
  • Sheryl - wonderful! I'm sure at least some of those are him, and those SA websites in general are a great way to look for more info. Specifically, they mention that ship...
I've now managed to piece together more of the puzzle, thanks to a hitherto unidentified letter combined with the information above. It seems Isidor and Eva went to Cape Town (the ship Kenilworth Castle, departing 16 Dec 1905 has a "Mr J Lasker"), then Port Elizabeth (staying at "the Royal", presumably a hotel), where "his business collapsed". The marriage didn't go well - by September 1906 she was complaining that "Jimmie" was treating her like a dog - gambling, drinking, threatening to kill her, frustrating her attempts to get "a situation" (a job?) by telling people they weren't married, and so on. So she fled to "a decent berth" (job?), "15 pounds a month with board and lodging" at the Queen's Hotel, Umtali (Rhodesia) - they even paid her "expensive" fare for the week-long train journey there. And although she did leave "Jimmie" a letter offering to return if he treated her better, she didn't tell him where she was going, out of fear he would make himself such a nuisance that she would have to give up her "situation" (again, does this mean some sort of hotel work? secretary? dancer? who knows...). She also says she has used her maiden name when "taking a situation" as "it is the normal thing here".

What happened next, I don't yet know. The letter was written to her father (a well-known academic) the same day he died in mysterious circumstances... (Anyone fancy making a book/film of this?!) So it may take more research, probably delving deeper into South African and Rhodesian data (both official records and newspaper reports etc.), if there are any.

The 1890 Isadore/Jennie marriage is possible... maybe they split before his UK (re)marriage in 1905, or Jennie died. But if they were "pre 1890 settlers", where did he come from before then - where is his father Aaron Lasker? And why would he be applying for naturalization in 1906? Maybe the 1906 "APPLICATION FOR LETTERS OF NATURALIZATION. ISIDOR LASKER." were an application on behalf of his new wife Eva?

The 1928 death is rather confusing - age 67 implies he was born 1861 (whereas the UK marriage certificate implies born 1867; a six year difference is not impossible, but still...). I note there's also a Jane Lasker dying at the same location in 1926 age 56, so an implied wife. Did Eva just say "I'm widowed" at her remarriage in 1918 because she assumed/pretended he was dead, whereas in fact he'd survived, remarried Jane (third wife?) and lived on? I'd need to find a marriage record for Isidor/Isadore + Jane.

So, overall I think I now have a good initial grasp of what happened, thanks to everyone here, although numerous questions remain. A simple one for now: "Isidor/Isadore" appears to be a Greek name, 'gift of Isis'. I'm guessing she called him "Jimmie" just as a random 'pet name', not because it's a common abbreviation for Isidor, right? And although I've come here because I blithely assumed he was Jewish, I've not actually seen any evidence for that fact - is it a reasonable assumption?

Ben Jones


S. Silberg
 

Hi
I  just checked the South Africa Jewish Rootsbank. It a genealogy site about South African Immigration and Genealogy.

It may be a long shot - I typed in Lasker into the general search.
There are a few entries about an Isadore Lasker who appears to have lived and married in Barberton in1890 and also an entry about a death in Durban in 1928.

Here is the link http://www.jewishroots.uct.ac.za/

A quick search of the South African National Archives shows an Isador Lasker applying for Naturalization in 1906!
http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?20210603204320F6ECC763&DN=00000005

There may be other entries if you take time to search. This may or may not be the same person but it is tantalizing!

By the way, Barberton in South Africa is a gold mining town.

Happy hunting

Sheryl Silberg
Florida, USA


Diane Jacobs
 

I didn’t mean that Lasker was wrong but on documents  and vital records the handwriting can be misread and indexed incorrectly or put online incorrectly.

Diane Jacobs


On Jun 2, 2021, at 4:59 PM, Jeremy Lichtman <jeremy@...> wrote:

Try the archives of the Jewish Chronicle. Their obituary section often contains records of deaths (particularly overseas) that I can't find corresponding official documents for.

--

Jeremy Lichtman
Toronto, Canada

--
Diane Jacobs, Somerset, New Jersey


Jeremy Lichtman
 

Try the archives of the Jewish Chronicle. Their obituary section often contains records of deaths (particularly overseas) that I can't find corresponding official documents for.

--

Jeremy Lichtman
Toronto, Canada


bjtranslations+genes@...
 

Thanks, Diane. I did consider that, but as the L occurs quite often (e.g. in the names Lloyd as well), it seems unlikely to be a misreading - the shape is the same.
Off-list, I've received a helpful suggestion that as his London address is a hotel and his profession diamonds, it's possible he was a visitor from South Africa so that might be the best place to look... but there is nobody relevant shown at https://www.ancestors.co.za/database/ALL-DBContent-results.php?term=Lasker&sqry= and the person running the site says historical records are not online: "
you will either need to go in personally to access the records [or pay me to do it]".
Ben Jones


Diane Jacobs
 

One thing you could try is searching the last name using C and S as it is known that in cursive writing C, S and L can be mistaken for each other.

Diane Jacobs 


On Jun 2, 2021, at 4:08 AM, bjtranslations+genes@... wrote:



I'm searching a mystery man... I have one detailed record, but can find nothing else!

On 14 December 1905, at St Giles, London, Eva Mary Lloyd (a relation about whom I know quite a lot) married Isidor Lasker, a 38-year-old (hence born c. 1867) bachelor diamond merchant residing at the Bedford Hotel, Southampton Row, Bloomsbury, London. His father was Aaron Lasker, a general merchant, deceased at the time of the marriage. Apart from the bride’s mother, the other witness was one unidentified Florence Chambers. Eva remarried on 2 July 1918, by which time she was a widow. I can’t find her in the 1911 UK Census, either under Lloyd or Lasker, so I can only guess she was abroad, perhaps with Isidor, or perhaps already widowed. I don’t believe they had any children. Searching GRO indices for 1905-1918 finds no Lasker/Lloyd births, and no male Lasker deaths (there’s also no sign of an Aaron Lasker death going back to 1865).

I’ve scoured Ancestry and other websites - including www.jewishgen.org - for “Isidor/Isadore/Jsidore Lasker/Lascar/Laskier/Lisker” etc., and found a few records from around that time, but 99% seem to involve the same 3-4 Jewish people in the US (with origins in Russia or Germany – one possibly South Africa; some travelling via the UK), with most of these showing US marriages, naturalization, residence, children, deaths and so on. Although it’s theoretically possible our Isidor left his US wife, came to the UK, pretended to be a bachelor, married Eva, went to New York again and died… it doesn’t seem likely. It's also theoretically possible he left Eva and she simply claimed he was dead when remarrying... but again, that seems rather far-fetched.

So if anyone has any leads on an Isidor Lasker 1867-1910 (+/-10 years), or even an Aaron Lasker 1840-1895 (+/- 10 years), who might fit the descriptions above, I'd love to hear from you!

Ben Jones


--
Diane Jacobs, Somerset, New Jersey


bjtranslations+genes@...
 

I'm searching a mystery man... I have one detailed record, but can find nothing else!

On 14 December 1905, at St Giles, London, Eva Mary Lloyd (a relation about whom I know quite a lot) married Isidor Lasker, a 38-year-old (hence born c. 1867) bachelor diamond merchant residing at the Bedford Hotel, Southampton Row, Bloomsbury, London. His father was Aaron Lasker, a general merchant, deceased at the time of the marriage. Apart from the bride’s mother, the other witness was one unidentified Florence Chambers. Eva remarried on 2 July 1918, by which time she was a widow. I can’t find her in the 1911 UK Census, either under Lloyd or Lasker, so I can only guess she was abroad, perhaps with Isidor, or perhaps already widowed. I don’t believe they had any children. Searching GRO indices for 1905-1918 finds no Lasker/Lloyd births, and no male Lasker deaths (there’s also no sign of an Aaron Lasker death going back to 1865).

I’ve scoured Ancestry and other websites - including www.jewishgen.org - for “Isidor/Isadore/Jsidore Lasker/Lascar/Laskier/Lisker” etc., and found a few records from around that time, but 99% seem to involve the same 3-4 Jewish people in the US (with origins in Russia or Germany – one possibly South Africa; some travelling via the UK), with most of these showing US marriages, naturalization, residence, children, deaths and so on. Although it’s theoretically possible our Isidor left his US wife, came to the UK, pretended to be a bachelor, married Eva, went to New York again and died… it doesn’t seem likely. It's also theoretically possible he left Eva and she simply claimed he was dead when remarrying... but again, that seems rather far-fetched.

So if anyone has any leads on an Isidor Lasker 1867-1910 (+/-10 years), or even an Aaron Lasker 1840-1895 (+/- 10 years), who might fit the descriptions above, I'd love to hear from you!

Ben Jones