Are those gravestones proof my ancestors were jewish? #germany


jbonline1111@...
 

Yes, definitely there are many differences in various parts of this country, but you started with a German grave, a country where there is more homogeneity.  Or was until recently.  Perhaps you might contact someone in Germany who is conversant with the customs there.
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC


tedepand@...
 

Please understand that I am referencing the "converses" of New Mexico, people whom you east coast people know nothing about. I never stated that they were Jewish and had a cross on their grave. These families are practicing Christians, but they know and understand that they are descended from Jews who were forced to convert. They acknowledge their ancestry in very different ways. They light candles on Friday nights. They put six sided flowers on their gravestones, and around their homes. I never said they were practicing Jews now, but they honor the practices of their ancestors. The inquisition followed them here and then onto South America. So judging by that standard, the same could be true for this gentleman's family, except in Germany. Please open your minds to the vast experience of Jewish migration around the world, and the varying customs that they all absorbed. I was born in New York City, and have migrated from there to the midwest, and west coast. You would be amazed at the differences among Jews in all areas of even this country.

Sincerely,

Ted Epand
Las Vegas


jbonline1111@...
 

With respect, depending on "customs" is wishful thinking, I'm afraid, Ted. No Jewish grave I've ever seen has had a cross on it. 

If you really want to know if you have Jewish ancestors, you will need to do further research, particularly as very few Jews moved back to Germany after the Holocaust.  You could also consider a DNA test, but I can't comment on them as no one in my family has done one.  I'm sure others can help in that regard.
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC


tedepand@...
 

I understand that Germany has its own customs. But do you know how many "Smith"s there are in the US who are Jewish? There is a complete intertwined Star of David on the second tombstone. Maybe the custom in Germany is due to pressure to conform, and that is why they use a six sided symbol for birth and a cross for death. I think there is too much conformity and unrealistic explanations in the writing above that states that a cross on the tombstone means they could not have been Jewish. Just read about the converses in any country. Life is difficult when you are pressured to conform. If this gentleman's family has a handed down tradition that they had been Jewish, it is most likely true!
Respectfully,

Ted Epand
Las vegas


Corinna Woehrl (nee Goslar)
 

Hello All,

Sorry, Ted, I've been researching (Jewish) genealogy (based) in Northern Germany for 30 years now, and I don't see a clue for Jewish ancestry just by interpreting the writing/symbols on the gravestones.
As Andreas states: it is custom in Germany to use the "asterisk" as a genealogical sign for the birthdate on tombstones. The surname "Blunck" is fairly common in Northern Germany and not necessarily Jewish.
None of these hints would solely be an indicator of Jewish ancestry. As I wrote privately: the only way to find out is the classical paperwork genealogy.

Kind regards

Corinna (Wöhrl), near-Hamburg, Germany


Andreas Schwab
 

To add to my previous answer: in German-speaking countries it is customary to put an asterisk in front of a birth date and a cross in front of a death date. 
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogisches_Zeichen
https://www.sekretaria.de/bueroorganisation/korrespondenz/din-5008/zeichen-geboren-gestorben/
https://www.genealogie-werkstatt-berlin.de/symbole-und-zeichen-uebersichtlichkeit-schaffen-in-der-genealogie

For Jews, a Magen David would be put in front of the death date, not the birth date:
https://infothek.rotkel.de/tastaturkuerzel/schriftzeichen/sonderzeichen/genealogische-zeichen.html

--
Andreas Schwab, Montreal, Canada


tedepand@...
 

Totally disagree with the above statements. It is very common for the families of "Conversos" in New Mexico to have a six sided flower on their graves. This is a designation that the family was originally Jewish, and probably converted to save their lives during the inquisition. Also, the problems in post WW1 Germany made it possible for many Jews to hide their identity, and the same for those who fled the nazis to other European countries. With the actual intertwined Star of David on the second gravestone, there should be no different conclusion that both are Jewish since the name "Blunck" is common to both.

Ted Epand
Las Vegas, NV.


jsheines@...
 


--Never say never.  For a burial in a VA cemetery, the religious symbol that appears on the headstone is up to the deceased's family and if the family was not Jewish, say the veteran converted, and wants a cross on the headstone, that is what goes on it.  The only exception I am aware of is headstones of US veterans buried in US Military cemeteries overseas for whom Operation Benjamin was able to instigate a change from a cross to a Star of David, but even then a family member must agree to changing the religious symbol on the stone.  
Herschel Sheiness
San Antonio, Tx
jsheines@...


Shelley Mitchell
 

You might also try to trace the oldest birth back to the “old country.”  There you might find additional information leading you to a Jewish relative. 


Shelley Mitchell, NYC 


Roger Lustig
 

No, those are just stars representing "born on." You can find 6-pointed
stars in many churches--it's not exclusively a Jewish symbol.

Take a look at some of the other graves in the same cemetery. I'm sure
you'll find quite a few equipped with that shape of star.

Roger Lustig

Princeton, NJ USA


Andreas Schwab
 

NO, these stars don’t mean that your grandparents were Jewish. An asterisk is a usual sign for a birth in Germany. it is used in the same way as a cross for a death. Also, a Jewish grave would never have a cross on the stone. 

On Dec 8, 2021, at 12:16, philthomsen202@... wrote:

Since my childhood my dad always told me we had jewish ancestors somewhere in history. Last month i took a closer look to the graves of my grandfather / grandmother and great grandfather / grandmother. I noticed that the birth stars had the shape of a Magen David. Does this mean they were jewish or is it meaningless for genealogic purposes? My father didn‘t know they were jewish, he just knew about the general heritage of our family from a jewish background.
<BF94E43E-B831-4E5D-8330-6087FCA13866.jpeg><48B47EAA-F815-4E7A-9907-AA6AEA39ACFA.jpeg>
Phil Thomsen


--
Andreas Schwab, Montreal, Canada


philthomsen202@...
 

Since my childhood my dad always told me we had jewish ancestors somewhere in history. Last month i took a closer look to the graves of my grandfather / grandmother and great grandfather / grandmother. I noticed that the birth stars had the shape of a Magen David. Does this mean they were jewish or is it meaningless for genealogic purposes? My father didn‘t know they were jewish, he just knew about the general heritage of our family from a jewish background.

Phil Thomsen