Can someone show how our name MESCHMAR is written in Cyrillic? #ukraine #names


Denise Suttle
 

Hello! My father's family surname was spelled MESCHMAR when they lived in Germany; prior to that, they had at least 3 generations living in Ukraine, where the English spelling has a variation MYSHMAR. How would we look for the name in original documents in the Cyrillic alphabet? Thank you for your help.

Denise Meschmar Suttle
New Mexico, USA
MESCHMAR/MYSHMAR, LECHZIER/LEKHTSSER, KORIN/KORN, Odessa, Kishinev, Kremenets, Medzhibozh, Frankfurt a/M

abqsuttle@...


Rob Montague
 

It’s not always easy to provide exact transliterations between Latin and Cyrillic characters. For one thing, some Cyrillic characters represent sounds that don’t exist in Western languages, so transliterations into Latin characters are often just approximations. Also, there are some variations between Cyrillic alphabets, just as there are between Latin alphabets. In this case, there are differences between the Russian and Ukrainian alphabets which each have some letters not used in the other language.

That being said, these are three possible versions of MESCHMAR/MYSHMAR in Cyrillic:

МЕШМАР

МЭШМАР

МЫШМАР

Have fun with this!

Rob Montague
Overland Park, KS


Paul Chirlin
 

Stephen Morse on his excellent website stevemorse.org about 2/3 of the way down the start page has a section "Dealing with characters in foreign alphabets"  One option is "Transliterating Names from English to Russian in One Step" where you enter the English name and it provides Russian options.  A few options below it is one which gives you the cursive appearance of the printed letters which you will need to find records that are handwritten.  There is no specific option for Ukrainian which is slightly different. 

paul chirlin
Florida


joelbnovis@...
 

I'd second Paul's recommendation to have stevemorse.org generate a number of variations.  A few things to keep in mind:

-- There was little consistency in how names (either given names or surnames) were spelled by scribes or clerks;  variations on a name could be found within the same document.  Jewish names were considered foreign and were rendered as they were heard.   My paternal great-grandfather's given name appeared in half-a-dozen different spellings.
-- Vital records in Ukraine were written in Russian until the establishment of a Ukrainian Republic after the 1917 revolution (with exceptions, see below).
-- Some areas now in Ukraine -- to include Medzhybizh (Mędzybóż) -- were once part of Poland, so vital records from before April, 1868 may appear in Polish.
-- US sources (e.g. Jewishgen or FamilySearch) occasionally contain transcription errors in their indexes.

Joel Novis
Longmeadow, MA
Researching NOVITSKIY (Vasil'kiv, Kyiv), GEYMAN/HYMAN (Ashmyany), OLSZTAJN/OHLSTEIN (Łódź województwo), POTASHNIK/LEVY (unknown), POMERANTZ (Navahrudak, Kapyl)


mvayser@...
 

Hello Denise,
I believe the issue might have been in the incorrect transcription of Meshmar.  Pre-reform Russian language (1918) had two ways to write the sound representing sound "e" as in "yes".  One of them was eliminated as redundant and hasn't been used since.  The one we ended up with is written just like the Latin alphabet "e" (Мешмар/Meshmar).  The other one sort of looks like the letter that is frequently transcribed into English as either "y" or "i" and would have been written as Мѣшмар, compare to Мышмар.  It doesn't look that similar in block letters, but definitely very similar written in cursive, when followed by a letter in your name.  Modern transcribers of the older Russian language records, who are not accustomed to this letter, will think it represents another one and you end up with the situation you are in.  I've definitely seen some records transcribed that way in Russian and this is only due to the inexperience of the person transcribing the records, forgetting about the letter in question and other archaic letters, that are thankfully no longer part of the Russian alphabet.
Having said all that, there are definitely records of Meshmars in Odessa.  For example, the 1900 marriage of Fanya Meshmar to Gershka Abrashkov, as well as the 1908 marriage of her brother Moysey to Dobrysh Lekhtsier (this matches the name in your signature).

Mike Vayser


Denise Suttle
 

Mike Vayser--this is very helpful, and you have uncovered a completely new relative's name in your reply! I have not seen the 1900 marriage of Fanya Meshmar to Gershka Abrashkov, and need to find this data. It does not come up in my searches on jewishgen.org. Can you please direct me to your source? Yes, the other couple (Moysey to Dobrysh) are my paternal grandparents. I am so excited to learn of a new aunt & uncle!  Thank you.
Denise Suttle


joelbnovis@...
 

Denise,

One source for Ukraine records which I've found very helpful is Nadia Lipes' database (https://lipesdatabase.com).  I've found records on her databases that I couldn't find anywhere else.  It's free to register, but there's a charge for every record image that's ordered.  

A quick search for "M*shmar" on the Lipes database returned 8 matches, all but one in Kherson Gubernia (which historically included Odessa).  As you'll see, there were a number of spelling variations for the surname we haven't even imagined yet!

Joel Novis
Longmeadow, MA
researching NOVITSKIY, GEYMAN/HYMAN, LEVY, OLSZTAJN, POMERANTZ...


Denise Suttle
 

Thanks to the referral to the LIPES database, and the tradition of patronymics, I've learned the possible name of a 3-ggrandfather. Much appreciation to the group for continuing to send options on spelling and resources of our family name. Now I need to decide whether to spend 400 euros to get the documents. Has anyone used this service, and were you satisfied with the result?
 
Many thanks!

Denise Meschmar Suttle
 
 
 

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Denise Meschmar Suttle
abqsuttle@...
New Mexico, USA
MESCHMAR/MYSHMAR/MESHMAR, Odessa, Berlin, Frankfurt; LEKHTTSER/LECHZIER, KORN/KORIN, Kishinev, Medzhibizh, Kremenets, Berlin, Frankfurt