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Why two marriage certificates? And why different information? #records #usa

Steve Stein
 

I found a conflict between two documents on the recently released NYC Municipal Archives website.. I would appreciate any advice on this one. Here are the several documents on this case.

  • Louis Israel and Annie Goldstein were married in NYC in February 1903. https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/3087001
  • Their son Hyman Israel was born in Manhattan on April 1904. His parents were living at 98 Sheriff Street. https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/954489
  • Louis filed his declaration of intention in 1909. He was living at 98 Sheriff Street and claimed to have been born in Moscow, Russia. He claims to have immigrated in 1893 but I haven't found the immigration.
  • A marriage certificate was issued for a marriage that took place at the municipal building in Manhattan on June 6, 1927 between Hyman Israel of 98 Sheriff Street, son of Louis and Annie Israel, to Katie Rosen of 93 or 95 Ridge Street by a deputy city clerk. https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/4206930
  • Another marriage certificate was issued for a marriage that took place at 87 Ludlow Street, a tenement, on July 4, 1927 between the same two people. Unlike the earlier license, this was apparently performed by a rabbi, or at least a Jewish person, and the groom's brother was a witness. https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/4206931
I am very sure that all these documents pertain to the same three Israels. The family lived at 98 Sheriff Street in both the 1910 and 1920 censuses.

At first I figured the second certificate was just to cover their religious bases, but the discrepancies between the two documents are glaring.
  • On the first, Hyman claims to have been born in NYC, but on the second, he claims to have been born in a place that looks like Tuze or Fuze, Russia. This is clearly not a mistaken version of his father's birthplace, noted above.
  • On the first, Hyman claims that his mother's maiden name is Goldstein, but on the second, it is something I don't recognize that looks like "Saidow." We have long suspected that "Goldstein" was a made-up name, but the family was listed as Goldstein in the 1900 US Census and every record afterwards. The Goldsteins were from Bialystok.
Clearly, the second marriage certificate either has egregious lies or horrible mistakes. Any ideas on why this is, and how to decode? TIA.

Steve Stein
Highland Park, NJ USA
A. E. Jordan
 

First marriage was a the municipal building ... ie a city hall marriage. Possibly without family and definitely not religious. Second one was done at home with family and likely a religious ceremony. Possibly they eloped or the family could not be there and there was a reason to get married quickly.

Not uncommon to see this happen.

Allan Jordan




-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Stein <steinsteve0608@...>

I found a conflict between two documents on the recently released NYC Municipal Archives website.. I would appreciate any advice on this one. Here are the several documents on this case.
Elise Cundiff
 

The information on my grandparent's county marriage record is all correct for my grandmother, but my grandfather lied about his place of birth, his place of residence, his age (borrowed his brother's), and his occupation.   Also, the rabbi who officiated was not the one who usually appeared on all other of his family records.  
I believe that the marriage was without his father's consent or knowledge, and grandfather took pains to disguise the event to keep it from getting back to him via the rabbi.

Elise Cundiff
Worthington, OH
Brian Kerr
 

Are you sure that this isn't reflecting a Marriage License and the Marriage Certificate?

I've got a handful of NYC family members that has a Marriage License date and a later date for the Marriage Certificate.

-- ~Brian D. Kerr, Esq | SSG, U.S. Army (Retired) | SSA, Brigade G1, U.S. Army (Retired) |>>Known Family Surnames (Researching): Dessler, Walk(Valk), Mahler (Maler), Paradisgarten (Paradisegarten), Tomasy (Thomashy), Gluck, Preisz (Priess), Steinhardt (Steinhart), Grossman (Grosman), Sholtz (Shultz), Kaplan, Bloom, Fischer (Fisher), Levy, Baum, Duwidewic, Meisal (Maisel)<<|>>Known Family Locations/Regions (of Surnames): Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Hungary, Lithuania<<|
Steve Stein
 

Brian, they are both marriage certificates. The licenses aren't online yet.

Steve Stein
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Stein
 

Allan, yes that is pretty clear. The bigger question, why different information?

Steve Stein
Highland Park, NJ
R Jaffer
 

The first marriage in February was performed by a rabbi, Rev. Emil Huld or similar who belonged to a Congregation whose name I can't decipher. Perhaps someone who lives in NY can figure it out.

Roberta Jaffer
Massachusetts
Michele Lock
 

I wonder if the birthplace of Tuze for the groom Hyman was a mistake, and was meant to be written down as the birthplace of the bride Katie Rosen, who on both marriage certificates is listed as born overseas, in Russia/Poland in the first civil certificate, and simply Russia in the second religious certificate. 

Do you know where this Rosen family lived in the old country? I wonder if Tuze is referring to Tuszyn, Poland.

It is odd that the maiden name for the groom's mother Anna is Goldstein on the civil certificate, and something like Saidow (or Saidens) on the religious one. Perhaps there was a surname change somewhere along the line. Perhaps at the religious ceremony, the groom's mother would have been present, and she would have been able to relate what the original surname was.

Whenever I have gotten conflicting information from records, my next step has been - to collect even more records. For instance, birth/marriage/death records of every sibling of the person in question, to see what those siblings put down for birthplaces, mother's name, etc. Sometimes the conflicting information is due to mistakes, but sometimes it is due to incorrect information being provided to whoever was making the record. For instance, my great uncle Michael saying on his marriage license that his mother's maiden name was Abrams, when it was Rabinovitch, according to Jewishgen records. I suspect he decided on the spur of the moment to choose a more American-sounding surname.
--
Michele Lock

Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock and Kalon/Kolon in Zagare/Joniskis/Gruzdziai, Lithuania
Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock in Plunge/Telsiai in Lithuania
Rabinowitz in Papile, Lithuania and Riga, Latvia
Trisinsky/Trushinsky/Sturisky and Leybman in Dotnuva, Lithuania
Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania
Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland
Lavine/Lev/Lew in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Vilna gub., Belarus

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