Request for Tombstone Translation-Hebrew #translation


Rusty Wilson
 

All - I would very much appreciate a translation of the headstone pictured below from a helpful Hebrew speaker.  
 
Thank you.
 
Rosenbloom, Chanchie tombstone (findagrave).jpg
 
--
Rusty Wilson
Washington, DC
RESEARCHING: KRASNY, NAGOSHINER; ROSENBLOOM, KAMINSKY; FERTMAN, GOLDFARB; PLOTKIN; 


ramot418@...
 

"Here lies our dear mother,Khentcheh daughter of Zvi, died 30th of Tevet 5684" (January 7, 1924)
Obviously, either the civil or the Hebrew date is wrong.  December 8, 1923 = 30th of Kislev 5684.
I would say that the error is in the Hebrew month.  However, the only way to be sure is to reference some other document (death certificate, obituary, etc.)
-------------------------------------------------------
Steve Goldberg
Jerusalem, Israel
Researching:
Sagan/Shagan family from Veliuona (Velon), Lithuania
Goldberg family from Vidukle, Lithuania
Susselovitch/Zuselovitch family from Raseiniai (Rassein), Lithuania


shimonsporn
 

I would agree with Steve, a mistake was made. I found her death extract in the DB of Familysearch which is also referenced in ancestry.com. I copied/pasted it below. It says her death was on December 7th. 
Chencha or Chantchie is a common Yiddish Derivative of the names Chana or Henya. 
An observation: Being as the Gregorian Date of Death was December 7, unless the New York City Clerk erred in dates, but the stone says that she died on the 30th of the Jewish month,  then she died some time Friday evening between after sunset and midnight, which was on the Shabbos. The engraver was probably told she died on Shabbos so he engraved December 8. That Friday night of her death December 7, was the beginning of the 30th day of the Jewish Month of Kislev, which at the same time was the celebrated eve of the Sixth night of Chanukah and also the first celebratory Day of Rosh Chodesh Tevet (beginning of Tevet), of which the second day of Rosh Chodesh is the next day the first day of the month of Tevet. Both days have extra prayers. What should have been a happy evening for the family being Shabbos & Chanukah became a sad one. The deceased must have been a very special woman, being as she merited passing away on Shabbos. According to our tradition the Gates of Gehenom-hell are closed on Shabbos thus anyone who dies, their souls enter directly into Gan Eden. When that happens we generally wait until after the Shabbos ends Saturday night after dark to bury the deceased. Burials are not done on Shabbos. Being as Mrs Rosenbloom died Friday Night on the Shabbat, then her funeral and burial was not done until Sunday the 9th, as written in the death record. According to biblical tradition, Great Pious and Holy Jewish leaders like Joseph, Moses and King David all died on the Shabbos.
Here is the death Certificate Extract.
Name Anna Rosenbloom
Sex Female
Age 60
Address 101 W 60 St.
Burial Date 9 Dec 1923
Death Date 7 Dec 1923
Death Place Manhattan, New York City, New York, United States
Death Place (Original) Manhattan, New York, New York, United States
Birth Year (Estimated) 1863
Birthplace Poland
Marital Status Widowed
Race White
Father's Name Harry
Father's Sex Male
Father's Birthplace Poland
Mother's Name Adele Cohen
Mother's Sex Female
Mother's Birthplace Poland
Event Type Death
Certificate Number cn 29574
Additional Relatives X
Cemetery Mt. Hebron Cem.
Note 101 W 60 St.
 
Shimon Sporn of Beit Shemesh, Israel
Researcher # 57380
Perl, Margolies, Itzkowitz, Lehrer families from Kisvarda, Fenyeslitke, Ustilug,
Leher- Rozenberg families of Hrubieszów Galicia Edmondton, London
Sporn families of Marosorozfalu, Rusii Munti, Saszreghin, Kajla, Besztercze-Naszod
Abraham & Stuhlman families from Pecsetszeg & Kozarvar


Lee Jaffe
 

Am I wrong or does the name inscription say BR, as in “son of”?  
--

Lee Jaffe
===============
Surnames / Towns:  Jaffe / Suchowola, Poland ; Stein (Sztejnsapir) / Bialystok and Rajgrod ; Roterozen / Rajgrod ; Joroff (Jaroff, Zarov) / Chernigov, Ukraine ; Schwartz (Schwarzstein) / Ternivka, Ukraine ;  Weinblatt / Brooklyn, Perth Amboy, NJ ; Koshkin / Snovsk, Ukraine ; Rappoport / ? ; Braun / Wizajny, Suwalki,  Ludwinowski / Wizajny, Suwalki

 


fredelfruhman
 

The details found by Shimon Sporn include the father's name:  Harry.

On the tombstone, the father's name is given as Tzvi.

Here is the most likely connection.   Tzvi is Hebrew for deer.  In Yiddish, dear is Hirsch/Hersh, etc.   Men with the Hebrew name Tzvi therefore often have a secular name that is a sound-alike for Hersh, such as Harry, Harold, Herbert ...
--
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA


fredelfruhman
 

Lee Jaffe is correct, in that the two letters bet-resh usually are understood to stand for the words 'Ben Reb', the son of Reb (an honorific)" (father's name).  When the deceased is a female, the standard word is the spelled-out "Bat" meaning daughter of.

However, many abbreviations have more than one reading.  Thus,the letter Bet can represent both the words Ben, son, and Bat, daughter.

I have seen other women's tombstones that have Bet-Resh rather than the word Bat.


Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA


Rusty Wilson
 

Thanks to everyone for engaging in this. I learned a few things.  
 
I thought the Hebrew said "Tzvi" which was odd, since I knew her father's name was Hirsch.  Fredel Fruhman's observation that Tzvi is Hebrew for deer, which in Yiddish is Hirsch, is a pretty good explanation and not one I could have figured out. 
 
The "Reb" is also confusing. That's the first time I've seen Hirsch referred to with that honorific, which I assume connotes that he was a rabbi? Or just a learned and respected person? 
 
Also odd that her husband Israel Rosenbloom wasn't mentioned. He predeceased her by probably 15 years, and never left Poland, but even with that, I don't know if the real reason is mundane, or the shadow of a family drama I don't know about. 
 
The information for Anna Rosenbloom that Shimon Sporn found is she.  I had no clue about the different dates under the two calendars and am still puzzled by why they would miss the Hebrew date so severely.  I also suspect the Hebrew date is wrong since I doubt the family could have missed a discrepancy in the US date while standing in front of the tombstone at the burial (or the unveiling).  
 
Thanks as always to this community for being so generous with your time and knowledge.  
 
 
 
 
--
Rusty Wilson
Rusty.Wilson1@...


Odeda Zlotnick
 

In addition to what Fredel said, another source of confusion in this issue is the difference between the abbreviation bet-resh, and the Aramaic word for son, which is "bar" but is also spelled bet-resh.

--
Odeda Zlotnick
Jerusalem, Israel.
--
Odeda Zlotnick
Jerusalem, Israel.


fredelfruhman
 

The Tzvi-Hirsh-Harry combination (and variations) is VERY common.

When I wrote that 'Reb' is an honorific, I mean that it's a title of respect.  It does NOT mean rabbi.  While the letter Resh can also be an abbreviation for Rav, rabbi, when someone is a rabbi this is usually made more clear, by the word "haRav", the rabbi, or the abbreviation mem-vav-hey, Moreinu haRav, our teacher the rabbi.

At some point in the past, "Reb" might have meant that the person was a scholar.  However, over time it became simply a term of respect that was used for any man.  It's sort of like saying "Mister", except that the name that follows is the person's first name rather than his last.
--
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA

original message:

The details found by Shimon Sporn include the father's name:  Harry.

On the tombstone, the father's name is given as Tzvi.

Here is the most likely connection.   Tzvi is Hebrew for deer.  In Yiddish, dear is Hirsch/Hersh, etc.   Men with the Hebrew name Tzvi therefore often have a secular name that is a sound-alike for Hersh, such as Harry, Harold, Herbert ...
--
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA