Can You Translate? #translation


Rosanne N Prichason
 

My great grandfather Sucher Needelman (might be him) is listed as Nudelman with three other people. I picked this document because census documents show immigration as 1888 with two similar names. This is the only ship document that, I have found.
I am able to translate Sura into Sarah. I cannot translate the child  Paja, and another name I can't read. He had daughters Lillian, Paulene, Ida and Sarah. Son, Solomon "Samuel." The document says they are meeting a brother. I have no information on any brothers of Sucher. I know that, people in Russia had Yiddish names, nick names and I am unclear whether Jews used Russian names or not. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Rosanne Prichason
Lewes, Delaware USA
MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately


Odeda Zlotnick
 

Hi Roseanne,
If you upload you image to JewishGen's Viewmate all responders will see all responses, and the image will stay for a whole week without being pushet to page 2 or 3 if the group is active.
ViewMate - Instructions (jewishgen.org)
It always helps helpers if you add the line or record number in scans you ask about.
JewishGen also has a very helpful resource for finding out name variations in different countries: Search the Given Names Data Bases (jewishgen.org)

Paja is a YIddish name. I would guess she became Paulene.
--
Odeda Zlotnick
Jerusalem, Israel.


Susan&David
 

Rosanne:  Sucher is an unusual name. I have never seen it before.  If you knew that your ggf was called Sucher then it is almost certain that this record is for hm  The other names are Paja, pronounced Paya, Chaia and Sura.  The civil names selected for these would have likely been Pauline, Ida and Sarah.

The numbers 7x29389  and 5/5/41 for Paja indicate that she applied for citizenship in 1941.  The 7 is a district number that applies to Cleveland OH or Buffalo NY.  You might try searching for naturalization records using her 1941 name.   

David Rosen
Boston, MA

On 9/9/2022 3:07 PM, Rosanne N Prichason wrote:

My great grandfather Sucher Needelman (might be him) is listed as Nudelman with three other people. I picked this document because census documents show immigration as 1888 with two similar names. This is the only ship document that, I have found.
I am able to translate Sura into Sarah. I cannot translate the child  Paja, and another name I can't read. He had daughters Lillian, Paulene, Ida and Sarah. Son, Solomon "Samuel." The document says they are meeting a brother. I have no information on any brothers of Sucher. I know that, people in Russia had Yiddish names, nick names and I am unclear whether Jews used Russian names or not. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Rosanne Prichason
Lewes, Delaware USA
MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately



Odeda Zlotnick
 

From the above mentioned Search the Given Names Data Bases (jewishgen.org)



I've learned a lot from searching this database for names I've never heard of.




--
Odeda Zlotnick
Jerusalem, Israel.


Rosanne N Prichason
 

I did upload it to viewmate. I am not sure I did it correctly. Lines 12-15.

I used Jewishgen.org to try and translate names without success. I am unsure of where they lived in Russia. I think it was Kamenetz --not sure whether I am spelling it correctly. It is now Ukraine.

Thank you very much!

Rosanne Prichason
Lewes, Delaware USA


Yale Reisner
 

Sucher is a Polish variant of the name Yissachar or Issachar, the name of one of the twelve tribes of Israel.  It is not that unusual a name. 

Incidentally, in Polish, Hebrew names beginning in Yi- or Ye- often dropped that syllable:  Yisrael > Srul; Yeshayahu (Isaiah) > Szaja; Yehoshua (Joshua) > Szyja; Yekusiel > Ksyl; Yerachmiel > Rachmil; Yechiel > Chil and so on.

Best wishes,

Yale J. Reisner
Warsaw, Poland
JGFF #913980
<yalereisner@...>


Rosanne N Prichason
 

My father said that Sucher's name was also Esucor. I hope I am spelling it correctly. There are no records of that name. 

Thank you for your information.

Rosanne Prichason
Lewes, Delaware USA


Sherri Bobish
 

Rosanne,

Yale is correct when he wrote "Sucher is a Polish variant of the name Yissachar or Issachar"

Lillie NEEDELMAN ZEKEN's tombstone gives her and her father's names as 
Liba bat reb Yisaschar.
https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/jowbr.php?rec=J_CO_0019284

Lillie's 1916 marriage cert says born Podola, as does her husband Mike ZEKEN.
Father Sucher, mother Edes BERENSON.
https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/8888326

Immigrants chose to use whatever Americanized names they felt like.  There isn't necessarily a "translation" of all first names.  It was common to maintain the initial sound of the name, or the sound of some part of the name, Hence Schya might choose to call himself Samuel, or Chana might choose Anna.  There were no no set rules.  Coming to America meant re-inventing oneself.

A great book about all this was written in 1912 by Russian immigrant Mary ANTIN, called "The Promised Land."

Pauline Needelman's 1915 Brooklyn marriage cert gives her birthplace as Podola. 
Perhaps referring to Podolia gubernia, Russian Empire.
Father Sucher, mother Hetha BERENSON
https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/8657511

Best regards,

Sherri Bobish





mvayser@...
 

On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 01:05 PM, Yale Reisner wrote:

Sucher is a Polish variant of the name Yissachar or Issachar, the name of one of the twelve tribes of Israel.  It is not that unusual a name. 

Incidentally, in Polish, Hebrew names beginning in Yi- or Ye- often dropped that syllable:  Yisrael > Srul; Yeshayahu (Isaiah) > Szaja; Yehoshua (Joshua) > Szyja; Yekusiel > Ksyl; Yerachmiel > Rachmil; Yechiel > Chil and so on.

Yale,
These are not Polish variants - they are common Yiddish variants of the Hebrew names.  Other Yiddish variants of Yissachar/Isokher are Isakher, Sakhar, Sakher, Sokhor, Sukhar, Shukher.  It's likely that the large number of the Yiddish variants is due to the regional dialects, for example, Litvak vs Ukrainian.  But that doesn't explain all of them, as not all of them are simple vowel shifts.  Interestingly, according to one reference, the Hebrew name with the most Yiddish variants is Yehoshua (Jesus/Joshua) with well over 40, which is just ahead of Hannah and Yaakov.

Mike Vayser


Rosanne N Prichason
 

I tried researching Pauline's info in Ohio. Nothing. I also tried in New York. She lived in Ohio, so is that she would have filed?

Her history is rather interesting as to husbands. She was married but there isn't any record  of divorce or his death. There is a record of her living with the second one several years before their marriage. It is possible!!! :)

Rosanne Prichason
Lewes, Delaware