Shalom, 

I was recently browsing on Otzar HaChochma and came across an extensive recording of Hillel's Yichus, showing pretty much every generation until King David. It's attached. The common lineage that is presented skips from Hillel to King David's son, Shephatia. 

I have never come across it before; I'm pretty sure it's not in "The Lurie Legacy". 

I am wondering if anyone has come across this and whether there are any expert opinions regarding its accuracy, or lack thereof. 

If interested, it's from "Sefer HaTzetzaim", p11. (https://tablet.otzar.org/#/b/141540/p/11/t/1663180337791/fs/0/start/0/end/0/c). 

Thank you very much. 

Chag sameach, 

Yoav Aran 
London 

Hi Yoav,

Have you visited the Davidic Dynasty site: https://www.davidicdynasty.org/?
There is a page named What the Experts Say under the Research menu, where you can read various opinions of the researchers. 

Alex Girshovich
Jerusalem.

This lack of focus may be attributable to the low level of notoriety that Hillel enjoys, especially outside of world Jewry.

Regards
Jack Berger
Mahwah, NJ

My two cents: the common idea that the Messiah will be a descendant of the House of David, justifies the almost universal desire to prove one's ancestry to King David.

Probably, this desire has misguided many genealogies in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

Alberto Guido Chester
Buenos Airew, Argentina

The Luria Megilat Yochsin is substantial evidence that can trace many families back to Rashi. 

Yoav Aran
London

@Yale Zussman: You are right that there are a lot of questions remaining. Your calculation, though, sounds nice but is worthless. As a matter of fact, a lot of people are pretty sure that all Ashkenazim descend from Rashi - which is very possible. 
Now, until some time ago, people had 10 and more children (not only the orthodox).

Now, I descend from Rashi (have many paths leading to him) and he was (depending on the branch) 32 generations before me. Since I have 2 parents, 4 Grandparents, etc. I would have approx. 4.3 billion ancestors in that generation. And with your example, he would have 4.3 billion descendants (mathematically it is the same). I am only trying to show that it makes no sense to argue like this, there were so many intermarriages (of course, i know of many in my family tree).

I do think, though, that articles of rabbis writing about their biography and who married whom are reliable.

These are my thoughts about your comment. I agree with the rest of your email.
--
David Seldner, Karlsruhe, Germany
seldner@...

@David Seldner, your notes about the calculation method are generally known as pedigree collapse when the number of distinct ancestors is smaller than the theoretical binary tree. It is especially applicable to Jews with their natural endogamy.

 

With regard to trusting the rabbis’ relationship evidences, I think that we should treat them as other historical documents from the past centuries. Unless they fail to cross-check with other sources or have obvious discrepancies, we can refer to them as valuable sources of genealogical information. 

Alex Girshovich
Jerusalem, Israel.

I think Yale Zussman is absolutely correct. Because of the math everybody is descended from King David through some parallel ancestral line.

The discussion changes if one insists on only direct patrilineal descent. That is determined by Y-DNA tests. Problem is that nobody knows King David's y-DNA haplogroup to match with. And all the known claimants of Davidic descent have different y-DNA haplogroups which would be unlikely if they were descended father to son.

IMHO descent through parallel or maternal lines is meaningless precisely because of Zussman's explanation.

Jeff Malka
jeffmalka@...

check http://www.dayanofaleppo.com/
this has the FT from King David to present

Sarina Roffe
Brooklyn, NY
sarinaroffe@...

check http://www.dayanofaleppo.com/
this has the FT from King David to present

Sarina Roffe
Brooklyn, NY
sarinaroffe@...

--
Diane Jacobs, Somerset, New Jersey