
James Hannum
That may be, because I've not seen the country/empire of Russia spelled "Rushia." Try to find an uzed or volost named Rushia.
Or he may have grown up in Debrowice, Rushia (Russi), and thought he might have been born there, but his parents never told him where he was born, and he knew that his parents had lived in the early years of their marriage in Volensky, Poland. So he put both places on the form, one in Russia and the other in Poland. --Josef Hannum
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James Hannum
But haven't Russian and Polish people for 200+ year had to have propiskas aka internal passports showing their town of birth, current address, and nationality (Jewish, Lithuanian, etc.)? This was their permission to live in a place, they couldn't move to a new place without permission. So wouldn't most people know where they were born? --Josef Hannum
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James Hannum
But what he wrote is "Debrowice Rushia, Volensky, Poland." If you are correct, that is a new one on me. It would be similar to a man with the name Solomon Abramovich Levin writing his name as Abraham Levin Ruskie Solomonskiy ! Why and how could he do such a thing? Did he have such a poor concept of where he lived? --Josef Hannum
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Both (present day) Vladimir Volynsk and Dubrovitsye were in the Volhynia Province at one time. The way this is written on the card are two distinct pairs of town/country -- Rob Klegon Chicago, IL USA
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On the original 1923 immigration card, what must have been confusing is that the country that Dubrovitsya was in had recently changed. Your relative would have been born in the town when it was part of Russia (the Rushia on the card), but by 1923 the town was part of newly independent Poland. It would have been more clear if the town of birth had been written 'Debrowice, Volin province, Russia (now Poland).
Michele Lock
Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock and Kalon/Kolon in Zagare/Joniskis/Gruzdziai, Lithuania Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock in Plunge/Telsiai in Lithuania Rabinowitz in Papile, Lithuania and Riga, Latvia Trisinsky/Trushinsky/Sturisky and Leybman in Dotnuva, Lithuania Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland Lavine/Lev/Lew in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Vilna gub., Belarus
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yes definitely I know my family is from Dubrovitsya due to other documents that list that town. Much appreciated! -- Rob Klegon Chicago, IL USA
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Apologies for being unclear with my question. There are two town names and two countries listed. Take care! -- Rob Klegon Chicago, IL USA
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My guess is that one was where the mother of the immigrant actually gave birth (maybe the woman's mother or midwife) and the second was where the birth was recorded (where the family actually lived). Another possibility is the immigrant lived in both towns and wasn't sure of exactly which one they were born in. It's only since WWII that we've filled all that information into forms at the beginning of every school year, then had to produce our actual birth certificate to learn to drive and get a license.
EdrieAnne Broughton, Vacaville, California
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I agree with the town, county (or district or province or region. depending on the way the administrative districts are defined, and what period).
Looks like this one:
Town: Dubrovytsia, Ukraine
Alternate names: Dubrovytsia [Ukr], Dubrovitsa [Rus], Dąbrowica [Pol], Dombrovitza [Yid], Dubrowyzja [Ger], Dombrovitsa, Dubrowica, Dubrovycja
Region: Volhynia
-- Rick Luftglass Brooklyn, NY
(surnames: LUFTGLASS, MOSES, YAGED/JAGED, BIELEY, DOLMATCH)
Locations of interest. Pcim (Myslenice county), Poland Oswiecim, Poland Andrychow, Poland Gdow, Poland Narajow (present-day Ukraine) Namestovo (present-day Slovakia) Bogopol (present-day Pervomaisk, Ukraine)
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Without seeing the actual document, my guess is that the first word is the town of origin and following words are the county or province in which that town is located. It’s like writing Atlanta, Georgia.
Best wishes,
Yale J. Reisner Warsaw, Poland
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And I doubt that this has anything to do with Vladimir Volynsk. It does however have to do with the province of Volhynia.
Yale J. Reisner Warsaw, Poland
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Hello! I'm curious if anyone has come across something like this before. I found a US Department of Labor Immigration Service "Border Inspection Memorandum" from 1923 for a relative of mine, and interestingly, there are two towns/countries written into the Place of Birth field. It is written "Debrowice Rushia, Volensky, Poland" This was for a land crossing from Canada to the US.
I believe these towns Dubrovytsia and Volodymr-Volinsky, Ukraine. Relative to all of Ukraine they appear not to be too far from each other, but not exactly right next door either.
I'm curious if anyone might have any insight as to why there might be two different locations written on this card in the same box.
-- Rob Klegon Chicago, IL USA
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