Help translating German on Buchenwald Concentration Camp record #translation


James Hannum
 

You wrote:  "My translation should have been 'Name and postal address of the relatives: Dora F., Wolfgang Schmelzelgasse 22/4/34, Vienna II.'  I assumed, perhaps mistakenly, that this postal address was the place where she actually lived."

Can you tell why you believe the above is perhaps a mistake?  It does not seem to be a mistake to me.  Are you referring to the possibility that the address may be a "postal address" as opposed to the street and number where she actually lived?  I.e., by "postal address" do you mean a box at the post office (called a "P.O. Box," in America)?  Or do you mean by "postal address" an address, perhaps a friend's house or her workplace, where she receives mail, so as not to give out her actual street address, out of concerns for safety?

If you mean none of the above, but instead mean that you "assumed, perhaps mistakenly, that this... was the place where she actually lived," I must disagree with you.  There can be no mistake about it.   "Name und Anschrift der Angehörigen" means name and address of relatives.  The answer given is "Frau Dora F." with that address.  Her actual present residence must go heres, and you are not possibly mistaken to say so.  

If "w.o." means wie oben (as above), then the prisoner's Letzter Wohnort is also the same as his wife's, as you translated.  Have you seen "w.o." on other documents?  I couldn't find it in GoogleSearch.  Testing, I searched for another initials, zB, and found it the first search result listed:
Was ist Abkürzung zB?
 
 
Bedeutungen: [1] zum Beispiel.

--
--James Hannum


James Hannum
 

I did a better search, this time for "wie oben" "w.o." German, and found it:
w.o.: Bedeutung
w.o. wie oben
So at the time the form was filled out, his former address had been w.o., and his wife's current address had been o. That's strictly speaking.  But she could have been arrested and taken to Buchenwald along with him.  

Certainly "w.o."
(wie oben, as above) saves a lot of typing.
--James Hannum


James Hannum
 

Your last reply still did not address the time of her/their residence at Wolfgang Schmelzelgasse.  Was it present time, or past (pre-arrest) time?  I said that, since the later question "Letzter Wohnort" (last residence) refers to past (pre-arrest) time, then it is not likely that there would be two questions asking for the same information.  Thus, I believe, the question "Name und Anschrift der Angehörigen" refers to the present time and does not refer to the prisoner's past (pre-arrest) address, although he probably did live there, unless his Frau had moved to there since his arrest.

The only reason I mention this is that I have noticed that the reason cases go unsolved is often incorrect assumptions, howsoever reasonable they be.  Last month I was researching a man who I found on the Ekaterinburg directory most years for over 40 years, always listed with the same wife.  I assumed therefore it was his only wife.  I later discovered that during a period of 3 years when he was absent from the directory, he had gone to Moscow, married another woman, fathered 2 children, and then returned to living with his long-time wife in Ekaterinburg.  That is why I would be careful about making reasonable assumptions from the above prisoner's card.  An assumption is no substitute for proof.
--Josef Hannum


baum@...
 

My translation should have been "Name and postal address of the relatives: Dora F., Wolfgang Schmelzelgasse 22/4/34, Vienna II.". I assumed, perhaps mistakenly, that this postal address was the place where she actually lived.

On the other hand, the entry for "Letzter Wohnort" is "w.o." which I assumed stands for "wie oben" (= ut-supra) confirming that Mr Feingold was living at the Schmelzelgasse address at the time of his arrest. 

Based upon both above mentioned assumptions I wrote that "they" lived at the Schmelzelgasse address. I apologise for any confusion that this may have caused.

Kind regards
--
Marcelo Rosenbaum
STOCKPORT - UK
researching KAHN (Altenstadt/Illereichen) / ROSENBAUM (Wonfurt/Nuernberg) / VANDEWART (Lendershausen) / WILHERMSDOERFER (Ansbach/Gunzenhausen)


James Hannum
 

I add some points to the translation.  Einlieferungsbehörde means consigning authority, the blank is filled out "Wien."

The 5th line of German, "Name und Anschrift der Angehörigen" means name and address of relatives.  It does not ask for the former address of the prisoner or his wife.  The question "Letzter Wohnort" (last residence) asks that question.  So what is the purpose of the "Name und Anschrift der Angehörigen" question?  I do not believe it seeks duplicate information as the "Letzter Wohnort" question.  That is, the translation of the answer to "Name und Anschrift der Angehörigen" as "They lived at Wolfgang Schmelzelgasse"  may be wrong.  The "they" could be "she," if the question is asking for the present address of relatives.

The "Name und Anschrift der Angehörigen" question could be seeking information about relatives that are presently still at large, perhaps so they can be rounded up and imprisoned.  Prisioners might give this information thinking that they are giving the name of a relative that can be informed in case of their medical need or death.  If Frau Feingold was at large on the date this document was submitted ("Eingeliefert am" means submitted on), then the trick may have worked, they may have gone to that address and arrested her.  (Perhaps when they rounded up the Vienna Jews thay didn't discover all the wives).  Or perhaps the trick failed; Frau Feingold had moved between the time of her husband's arrest and the time they came to the address to arrest her.

Good luck!
--James Hannum


baum@...
 

Josef Mündel FEINGOLD, prisoner #6776

 

His occupation was "Kürschner" (=furrier): he was Jewish, married, without nationality.

His wife was Dora F. They lived at Wolfgang Schmelzelgasse 22/4/34, Vienna II.

He was remanded from Vienna on September 10th 1939 and died ("gestorben") on October 07th.

--
Marcelo Rosenbaum
STOCKPORT - UK
researching KAHN (Altenstadt/Illereichen) / ROSENBAUM (Wonfurt/Nuernberg) / VANDEWART (Lendershausen) / WILHERMSDOERFER (Ansbach/Gunzenhausen)


Steven
 

This is the Buchenwald Concentration Camp record for Josef Mundel Feingold, who may have been my paternal great grandmothers brother or first cousin. I know he was born on Jan 12, 1858 in Kolomea, Poland. Looking for any other personal information.

Thank you,
Steve Buzil

researching:

BUZILA and KILYAN from present day Moldova 

GRUBER and FEINGOLD from present day Ukraine

SEIDLER/ZEIDLER, GROSSBARD, BERLIN, WICZYNSKY, PTAKEWICZ, GOODMAN, DOBROSZKA and BROWN/BRAUN from present day Poland.

PORTNOY, GERSHON and OFSAIOF/OVSAIOVICH from present day Lithuania

MNUSHKIN and KOLVARACHIK from present day Belarus

EISENSTEIN and ZALIO from present day Romania