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DATZ and SATZ Families from Mogilev-Podol'sk #ukraine


Janis and Joe Datz
 

I am trying to figure out the connection between DATZ and SATZ.  Satz continues to match DNA with the Datz family.  All stories told by elders insist that Datz was always spelled this way.  The families are from Mogilev-Podol'sk Ukraine.   Many thanks for any information that would connection the families as well as purpose of name change.  Somewhere in this puzzle is, I believe, surnames of Shatz or the like.

Janis Friedenberg Datz
jjdatz@...


cohen.izzy@...
 

When the sound of a letter changes, the members of a language community have a choice. They can keep the original spelling and accept the change in sound or they can respell words including names to retain, as nearly as possible, the original sound. It is not unusual for both of these processes to occur.

In 1950 at the time of my bar-mitzvah, the conservative and reform congregations in the USA made a political decision to adopt Israeli pronunciation. Most Ashkenazi orthodox congregations did not do this. Among conservative and reform Jews, the sound of the Hebrew letter sof became T and the name of the Sabbath became shaBAT. Among most of the orthodox it remained SHAbos.

In ancient times, the Hebrew letter shin had a dental D/T-sound. The Hebrew word SHeN (tooth) is cognate with Latin dent- and Greek δόντι (dónti). The Hebrew word LaSHoN (tongue) is cognate with the word "Latin", the "tongue" of the Romans.

So, when the sound of the letter shin changed to S or SH, some families kept the original spelling and accepted the new sound. Others changed that letter to a dalet to retain the original dental sound .

You are correct about Shatz also being a phonetically related name.

For a more extensive (but still not complete) list of ancient sound changes to Hebrew letters, see the attached SoundChangeHandOut file. You may treat this material as public domain except for the graphic (which I did not make) in the attached Word docx file.

Israel "Izzy" Cohen
cohen.izzy@...


jswack@...
 

Dear Janis,
I'm a Satz descendant (my mother's mother's parents were a Satz and a Spilkes who were first cousins; they were from Mogilev-Podolsky). I've seen the Datz's, plus Deitz's, Deitch's, Deutches, etc., all of whom seem to be the same family (not sure about Datz). The Deitch etc. names also appear in the ticket order groups that my great-grandfather Joine Spilkes participated in to bring other family members from Mogilev and from Bessarabia (we also had a lot of relatives in Galicia) to Philadelphia. Some of our other close relatives are Treibich, Gass, Broker, and sometimes they are combined in the records (Satz or Shatz-Treibichan, for example). And Gass is sometimes Hass or similar, since the sound is between G and H in Russian. My great-grandfather's also sent his ticket orders via a Roytman family and a Blufstein family.   I have been wondering about you too. Does this sound familiar to you?  Jeanne Swack


jswack@...
 

I replied and I don't see it. I'm a Satz descendant (in fact doubly, because my great-grandparents were first cousins Satz-Spilkes). And they were from Mogilev-Podolsky. But we have a lot of matches with variants of Deitch, Deitz, Deutsch, etc., and this includes the other families who put together ticket orders with my great-grandfather Joine Spilkes (mother was a Satz and his wife was a Satz) to bring relatives from Mogilev and from Bessarabia. Do you know if Datz was the same family as the one's I mentioned. I see records for Datz and records for all these Deutsch variants. Satz was also Zatz, Shatz, and Shatz-Treibichan.  Our close relatives were Satz, Spilkes, Treibich, Gass, Broker, and my great-grandfather sent orders through Cohen (I think the maternal family of Treibich), Blufstein, and Roytman (besides through other Gass family members). Their immigration was to Philadelphia.  I think we have exchanged some information before. Best regards, Jeanne Swack