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Descendants of Dutch Jews. Any interest? #general

linda.scatton@...
 

I would like to suggest that we start a new group for descendants of Dutch Jews. Although the Nazis killed seventy-five percent of the Jewish population of the Netherlands, the country has made a concerted effort to recognize this and to make available lists of those murdered in the Holocaust.  Dutch Jews were among the earliest Jewish immigrants to the US.  I have Dutch Jewish ancestors who settled in Philadelphia and environs in the mid-19th century.
Thanks for your consideration.
Linda Hart Scatton

Emily Rosenberg
 

Yes. I would like a Dutch Hewish group   My family were Amsterdamers who came to US mid 19 Century  

henry
 

Linda,

I also have Dutch ancestors whom I have traced back to Permerend (near Gouda) it the 17th century. My branch immigrated to the UK in the mid-19th century, so I too would be interested in this group.

Henry Best,
London, UK.

bwonder@...
 

Thanks Linda. I am a descendant of the Dutch Lam and Klok families who I have information on back to the mid 17th century. So I too am onyetested in your proposal.

Bernard Wonder (Australia)

suelaine@...
 

Hi: Our names are Sue and Andrew Laine. My husband has a line of Dutch Jews who immigrated to London in the late 19th century. When their cigar business declined, they moved to Brighton, Sussex. The family has spread throughout Sussex and also moved up to Yorkshire. The name of the patriarch was Moses Morris Goldsmith/Mozes Morris Goudsmit (1847-1930). His wife's name was Margaretha  (Kitty) Breslau (1849-1932). They immigrated from Amsterdam to London and then moved to Brighton. Their daughter, Hannah Fanny Goldsmith (1888-1942) married Charles Hallett (a gentile. 1888-1974). They mostly lived in the Brighton area until their senior years. These were Andrew's grandparents. They moved up to Kirkburton, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, to live with their daughter, Lillian Mary Hallett Laine, until their death. Lillian was Andrew's mother. She married Leslie Laine in 1934 and died in 2015. 
Andrew's brother, David, went to Amsterdam to do family research around 2005 and came back with a family line that goes back to the early 1500's. He recognized over 300 family names on the Holocaust Memorial Wall in Amsterdam, many of them dying in Auschwitz. In our research we have found second cousins who died there; many times entire families were lost. We have been trying to add to this line which is our direct line, but are struggling with the European records. I do much of the research now as Andrew has Parkinson's Disease. 
We would like to learn how to use the European records to fill in and extend our line. Working in the same areas and the same time periods with other researchers would help us.. It sounds like forming a group would put us in contact with researchers of similar interests. Please keep us informed as to the progress of this group. Let us know what we can do to help. Thank you.   Sue and Andrew Laine

curtstamps@...
 

Rollie Stamps
curtstamps@...

I agree. A group discussion on Dutch Jews would really help. My Mother's line immigrated to New York in the early 1800's.

Pieter Hoekstra
 

[quote] Hi: Our names are Sue and Andrew Laine. My husband has a line of Dutch Jews who immigrated to London in the late 19th century. When their cigar business declined, they moved to Brighton, Sussex. The family has spread throughout Sussex and also moved up to Yorkshire. ...[/quote]

I thought for a brief minute you may have been leading into a story of my distant cousins (de COSTA / JOSEPH) who were cigar traders in Brighton in 1880's onward and later publicans.

--
Pieter Hoekstra  <sold@...>
MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately

nick@...
 

Under Comments: re- ROZENBERG, Leeuwarden, Friesland, Netherlands, I wrote

Being Dutch born [but living in NZ now for 62 years], I wonder whether you have accessed Dutch genealogical websites, such as Stamboom, see "Stamboom Forum" <genealogie@...>. On its website, they also refer to www.openarch.nl  which has 219 million records from 90 archives.

Pieter Hoekstra commented: You can also look at dutchjewry.org which is in English.

In addition there is the Nederlandse Kring voor Joodse Genealogie [Netherlands Circle for Jewish Genealogy] with website https://www.nljewgen.org/ On that website is also an English version https://www.nljewgen.org/about-us/

 

BTW; Dutch people would speak of Amsterdammers, and it is Purmerend.
I am still trying to find Abraham VOGEL who went to the USA in October 1846, but seems without trace. He was the father of Sir Julius VOGEL.
Nick Lambrechtsen

Richard Brett
 

My ancestors were of Spanish and Portuguese ancestry (Nunes Cardozo, De Chaves, Nunes Martinez, Gomez de Costa), many of whom came to London from Amsterdam in the late 17th / early 18 centuries.  I would certainly be interested in such a group.

Richard Brett
London, UK

R Jaffer
 

In response to Nick's inability to locate Abraham VOGEL in the U.S., I was informed by an archivist in Amsterdam that it was common for the Dutch who emigrated to the U.K. and U.S. after name adoption to revert to using a patronymic type of surname in their new countries. He helped me learn that my husband's LEVY family were RICHTERS and the EZEKIEL families were POSNANKIS. Once I had the correct name adoption records, I could then search online records myself. While Abraham VOGEL emigrated about thirty years later than my husband's families, it is still possible that the surname he used once coming to the U.S. was his father's given name, not VOGEL.

Roberta Jaffer
Massachusetts, USA

Stephen M. Fortlouis
 

My maternal grandfather, Harry Smit, was a descendant of Dutch Jews. I am the sixth generation in a direct line of descent from This line in America.

nick@...
 

Hi Roberta
Your comment about reverting back to the patronymic surname is very interesting, because Jewish people had to register a name in 1811 during the French occupation of the Netherlands. Abraham Levy Joel VOGEL was also known as Albert Leopold VOGEL. He was born on 1 June 1796 in The Hague and is reputed to have died on 18 Feb 1855 in Cleveland, Ohio. His father was Levy Joel VOGEL, born about 1748 in Amsterdam and died on 23 Nov 1833 in The Hague. His father was Joel [Samuel] Levy [VOGEL], born about 1714 in Amsterdam [?] and died on 10 Mar 1771 in The Hague. 
Levy Joel VOGEL had been named Levy Joel when he registered the VOGEL name on 31 Dec 1811 [see p. 94 of the publication "Naamsaanneming en behoud door Hoogduitse Joden in 1811" by Sv E Veldhuijzen, published in The Hague 1982]. At the registration, he recorded his son Abraham Levy Joel, then 16 years old.
Would Abraham Levy Joel VOGEL have reverted to Abraham Levy Joel, once in the USA?
Looking forward to your comments.
Nick Lambrechtsen, NZ

kesspark@...
 

 
My husband’s Park paternal family: Beletje Betsy Elizabeth David BUIJTENKANT (1818-1882, father David Isaac. Mother Bloeme Levie KOEKOEK) who married Simon Hartog PARK (1814-1872). Their family left Amsterdam to London for a few years (cigar makers-sound familiar) then to Boston about 1862. Many stayed in England. 
The extended PARK family that stayed in Amsterdam died in the Holocaust (over 250). 
 
I have uploaded to Billion Graves a lot of PARK and BUIJTENKANT headstones from Amsterdam and Boston.
Other names BRUSKET, MOK, VOORZANGER, FRANKFORT, GOEDHART. 
 

gunnired@...
 

I, too, would be interested in such a sub group. One or two in particular of my ancestors transited to the US via the Netherlands (among at least several others) and possibly stopping in Ireland on their way from France and Spain, likely from Palma de Mallorca. I have tested positive to a very high degree for Chuetas DNA (Jewish victims of the Inquisition unique to the ghetto of Palma de Mallorca). I have learned that the immigrant ancestor to the US, named Thomas Ferrier, and his wife Hester Lucky (father probably Moses), both of whom according to family tradition emigrated via Netherlands, she possibly having come there from Germany or Poland. Still, variations of both surnames (Ferrar, Luqui) are represented in the Mallorcan Jewish community that suffered during the Inquisition, and given the DNA matching result, I assume one or both of them were Chuetas. Have much interest in proving this origin or at least learning more. Another possible origin for Hester would be in or around Lutsk (Ukraine, previously Poland). -- Warren Davis 

fredelfruhman
 

While I am not descended from Dutch Jews, one of my (German) aunts married a Dutchman and they lived in Amsterdam, from where they and their young child were deported to Westerbork and killed in Sobibor. 

As the family name is Cohen, it has not been particularly easy to find the family, although I ultimately had some success.  Today, based on the information in a new post, I learned of the multiple records available through the Dutch archives and have begun to plow through, although many are only in Dutch.

This is what I know about my uncle.  His name was Herman COHEN, born in Arnhem in 1908.  His father was Louis Simon COHEN, son of Simon Jacob COHEN and Sijtje SONDERVAN.  His mother was Louise DESSAU, daughter of Hermann DESSAU and Bertha KALISCHER.

If anyone has information about these families, please reply privately.

I have also learned that there is a "Jokos" file on my uncle and aunt's family, which I would like to pursue, but do not know how.  The file is said to reveal that a claim was lodged for compensation of valuables surrendered to the Lippmann-Rosenthal looting bank (there is a claim number).  I am hoping that learning who filed this claim may leas me to surviving relatives of my uncle's, but have no clue as to how to proceed with this investigation. 

A public reply to this part of my request might be helpful to others.

Thank you.
--
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA

alina.gildiner@...
 

I also had ancestors, on my father's side, who fled Spain or Portugal for the Netherlands.  Regrettably, however, their next move was to Poland. 

I'd be very interested to learn more about the history of Dutch Jews.

Anne Nunez
 

Same last name... My father was a Nunez, his mother was a Cardozo. From Spain/Portugal then Livorno, Tunis, Paris then now, for some of us, the US.
I did see connections, marriages etc between Livorno and London/Amsterdam Sephardim in the 17th-18th century archives. 
My father did DNA analysis thru Family Tree DNA. Adam Brown of the Avotaynu DNA Project/Census project has helped my father thru his DNA analysis and analysis of other family members. Have you considered such analysis? It may give you some information on your family origin and relations with other sephardic families. My father did find a genetic match with a Christian minister in England, originally Enriquez/Valentin. 
Best regards,
Anne Marie Nunez
Alexandria, VA

henry
 

Anne, My great grandmother's PEZARO family travelled in the opposite direction to yours. Livorno in the 17th century to Portugal, then the Netherlands and finally ended up in London.

Henry Best,
London, UK.